QQ vs Lag in tricky spot

[tarath]

doesn't betting flop just fold out hands we are way ahead of and get call/raised when we're behind?

[ofishstix]

like he would ever fold TT if you bet out here...

[bigbluffben]

Unless you planned on c/calling down I think c/c the flop is a useless play. It gives him total control of the hand and now he gives you the tough decision. I bet the flop and if just called I check the turn and go from there

[tarath]

[ QUOTE ]
Unless you planned on c/calling down I think c/c the flop is a useless play. It gives him total control of the hand and now he gives you the tough decision. I bet the flop and if just called I check the turn and go from there

[/ QUOTE ]

Well the thing is he probobly expects me to cbet almost anything here right? Is the flop bet for value or a bluff? I'm WA/WB right?

My gut agrees with you but i'm having trouble understanding why this is the right play...

How is making him call flop and see if I check turn to fire turn any better than making him fire flop and turn. And if all I'm doing by firing the flop is making it hard for him to bluff with the middle of his range why isn't c/c c/c c/c the right line?

[bigbluffben]

I would bet the flop for value and if he thinks youre cbetting all flops then its all history from there... sometimes if i get raised i shove here and sometimes i fold but i'm def not c/c the flop.. what if he has 88-10 10 now he has you guessing his range

[tarath]

[ QUOTE ]
like he would ever fold TT if you bet out here...

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe i'm just a noob but aren't AQ, AJ, QJs, 88, 99, J10s, and maybe 66, 89s, all in the range of hands he'll bluff if I check but probably fold if I bet? I think in your example your chosing the 2 hands (10/10 and JJ) that support your argument.

[bigbluffben]

Well i guess if you plan on c/c down with youre good hands in hopes of him bluffing the i suppose youre going to be pretty easy to read... Cause after watching that hand i would just raise everytime you bet.. and bet all good hands when you check... right? I think that might be a bad game plan

[tarath]

[ QUOTE ]
Well i guess if you plan on c/c down with youre good hands in hopes of him bluffing the i suppose youre going to be pretty easy to read... Cause after watching that hand i would just raise everytime you bet.. and bet all good hands when you check... right? I think that might be a bad game plan

[/ QUOTE ]

A) You probably aren't 36/30/24

B) He has no history of me taking a line like this, my usual AFs are actually 5.5/3.5/2

C) pokers dynamic. I'm asking what to do, given that he and I only have 100 hands together and assuming i'm a standard tag. Obv if he had 3k hands with me and I had c/c in this spot 10 times and he'd adjusted I would change it up.

[KhalynYohrk]

I am also a bit curious if there is a better line than betting out the flop and c/cing down. Obv this opponent has a king a % of the time so what % do we need to have him in order to make this turn and possible river shove be +EV? I think It might be a closer spot than we think. Given he will have a king often how bad is folding to a river shove? And if we are calling a river shove why dont we just crai the turn. Could use some help on this one, I usually bet flop and shut down afterwards but these stats are tempting to call down/shove.

[Shizzle12345]

fold or check call down depending on dynamics, i go by instinct here sometimes.