Weak leads (way too late pooh-bah?) tl;dr

[PietM]

In your first example villain leads for 3/4 pot. I don't think that's a very weak bet.

If a villain bets more than > 1/2 pot I generally don't raise with ATC. In a headsup pot I raise close to 100% when a villain bets less than 1/2 pot and I have no reads, this seems to be working very well.

Villains that donkbet small, call my raise on the flop and donkbet again on the (seemingly blank) turn confuse me though...

[ama0330]

I think in both your examples that stack sizes are a huge factor. Someone leading with 100bb behind is very different to someone leading with 10bb behind.

[vixticator]

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I think in both your examples that stack sizes are a huge factor. Someone leading with 100bb behind is very different to someone leading with 10bb behind.

[/ QUOTE ]Agree to an extent. A shortie is more likely to have hit some part of the flop or have some kind of weak made hand that they want to felt. I just used the first examples I could find. A deeper stacked player is more likely to call and c/f to a turn bet (or more likely fold to the raise immediately), though I don't recommend auto double barelling in this spot. Typically they will not value bet thin on river and you can see exactly what the weak lead means.

Basically, the deeper stacked players are more likely to fold the flop or turn and shorties are more willing to felt the hand.

edit: This is my experience at 25nl and lower. No idea if/how it applies to 50nl+.

[SDone]

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In your first example villain leads for 3/4 pot. I don't think that's a very weak bet.

If a villain bets more than > 1/2 pot I generally don't raise with ATC. In a headsup pot I raise close to 100% when a villain bets less than 1/2 pot and I have no reads, this seems to be working very well.

Villains that donkbet small, call my raise on the flop and donkbet again on the (seemingly blank) turn confuse me though...

[/ QUOTE ]
I never understand what to do there.

[Triggerle]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In your first example villain leads for 3/4 pot. I don't think that's a very weak bet.

If a villain bets more than > 1/2 pot I generally don't raise with ATC. In a headsup pot I raise close to 100% when a villain bets less than 1/2 pot and I have no reads, this seems to be working very well.

Villains that donkbet small, call my raise on the flop and donkbet again on the (seemingly blank) turn confuse me though...

[/ QUOTE ]
I never understand what to do there.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's a typical aggro-donk line. If you don't raise again they will read you as weak and bomb the river. If you raise again and they fold they will usually stop donkbetting you for the time being.

[vixticator]

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In your first example villain leads for 3/4 pot. I don't think that's a very weak bet.

[/ QUOTE ]It's not a weak bet. That's my point. The idea isn't that they lead for small amounts it's that they lead into a preflop raiser. With a strong hand *most* opponents will c/r or c/c and either lead turn or c/r turn, etc. A stronger line. When they just lead right into a raise on the other hand it is typically a weak made hand that they want to either get to showdown with or "find out where they stand" and fold to raise. In my experience they USUALLY fold regardless of bet size. With better reads, once you figure out what this means you can use the info to double barrell and so forth. Some players will lead with very strong hands, especially on drawy boads when they think you are loose... this is not standard. Get notes on them as well.

Leading weak with marginal hands is one of the bigger leaks that the average fish/donk has, if you find out what it means this gives you a tremendous advantage. Some of them will almost always fold to a raise. Some of them will always call down every street. Others call flop and fold turn. Some flopped the nuts and will shove after you raise.

The point being in general, against an unknown opponent, this is a very weak play and raising is +EV as a whole. Especially when you have a strong hand and this happens, value bet every street. The smaller the limit the more truth this is... and at reallllly small stakes (2nl, 5nl) they will often just shove over your raise with underpairs or on a pure bluff with overcards.

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Villains that donkbet small, call my raise on the flop and donkbet again on the (seemingly blank) turn confuse me though...

[/ QUOTE ]This is typically a much stronger line. They are trying to induce another raise. Don't bite. A similar line is like minbet, minbet, shove. People do this with big hands.