2007-2008 NBA MVP

[IrishHand]

I was replying to his comment that LAL > CLE at every position except maybe PG. Not much point in noting the obvious Odom>Gooden.

Hughes hasn't done a thing this year, so not much point mentioning his PER or any other stat. It's like saying he's averaging 6 ppg so he's a crappy scorer.

Luke Walton = solid accessory player, average defender at best
Larry Hughes = potential legit 2nd/3rd offensive option, quality defender for 2-3 positions (1 through 3)

If they had the same salary and were healthy, you seriously think Cleveland would trade Hughes for Walton straight up?

Regardless, this is all a senseless debate. Even if LAL>CLE w/o Kobe/LeBron, that doesn't mean that either deserves MVP consideration unless their team does a lot better than it has during the past couple regular seasons (and this one).

[FlyWf]

"If they had the same salary and were healthy, you seriously think Cleveland would trade Hughes for Walton straight up?"

In a second. Well, not under some definitions of healthy.

Hughes is one of the worst players in the NBA. Not one of the worst starters for a contender, worst players period.

[kidcolin]

I think Larry Hughes could be better than he is for the Cavs, but it's so obvious he's such a poor fit there. He needs a Nellie ball type of system. Even still, he only had that one season where he was better than average, really.

And as for the "they need to do much better", you're basically conceding that the MVP award is a function of the team's performance. Which historically is true, but it's dumb. Not that Duncan and Nash aren't great, but you think you throw either of those guys in LBJ's place the Cavs become a 60 win team like the Suns or Spurs? No way. They both have incredible supporting casts.

[btmagnetw]

wtf IrishHand seriously

[IrishHand]

The MVP award is a function of team performance - and it should be. How valuable a player can you be if your team is 30-52? To me, it's an untenable argument to say "this player is the best player in the NBA for this season despite his team's poor W/L record." "Most Valuable" for a given season needs to bear some positive relationship to regular-season wins (since the MVP award is voted on before the playoffs). In the NBA, a lot of players put up gaudy numbers to the detriment of their team (Iverson much of his career, Kobe in the soon-post-Shaq era).

If you put Duncan on the Cavs instead of LeBron, they win more games. There isn't a doubt in my mind. You put Duncan on any team in the NBA in place of their "best" player and I would argue the same point - at least for this season.

It's closer with Nash but I suspect the same would be true - CLE would be a better regular-season team. He's a more efficient scorer and he dictates how a game is player to a much greater extent than LeBron...and he does a far better job improving his teammates.

Hughes is a really poor fit in Cleveland, but that's mostly because they have an awful coach. He's got a lot of talent when healthy - Hughes' "poor" Cleveland years (15/4/4) are Luke Walton's ceiling.

[BobboFitos]

Irish, you have become the Vyse of the sporting events forum.

Right now the MVP is Lebrons to lose. Think about it this way:
[ QUOTE ]
How valuable a player can you be if your team is 30-52?

[/ QUOTE ]
If they didnt have lebron, they'd be a 12-70 team, so he's good for 18 wins.

[FlyWf]

Iriahhand- It's not a "highest points per game" award, it's a "best player" award, so your Iverson comment is nonsensical. The appropriate test is the one you explain later in your post(all else equal which player would you rather have), which hilariously completely defeats your initial nonsense about regular season success.

Also, Nash>Lebron? You've got to be [censored] me.


Re: Hughes, Hughes is never healthy and has only had one year his entire career that was decent. He's terrible.

[tuq]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, Nash>Lebron? You've got to be [censored] me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. It should be more like Nash <blink>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>></blink> Lebron.

[Victor]

ugh, hughes is just bad. you gotta watch the guy play. he misses layups. takes bad jumpers. makes poor passes and wrong passes killing offensive rhythm.

i will say he plays really hard.

[IrishHand]

[ QUOTE ]
ugh, hughes is just bad. you gotta watch the guy play. he misses layups. takes bad jumpers. makes poor passes and wrong passes killing offensive rhythm.

i will say he plays really hard.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said he wasn't an idiot with low basketball IQ - only that he was more talented than Walton. Obviously though, a different opinion from the norm makes me the forum retard. Easy solution to that problem. Hope you all had a great Thanksgiving!