#1
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Turn fold with QQ
The reason for the 'slowplay' pre flop was that the button was playing at 78/42 and shoving most flops, with any pair, sometimes no pair /draw. He had previously shoved an AK2J board on the turn with 23o and there was this beauty:
Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (5 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com Button ($149.05) Hero ($100) BB ($174.90) UTG ($74.30) MP ($49.40) Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $3.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $12</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG calls $8.50. Flop: ($25.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $1</font>, MP calls $1. Turn: ($27.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $27.5</font>, MP calls $27.50. River: ($82.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $33.8 (All-In)</font>, MP calls $8.90 (All-In). Final Pot: $125.20 UTG has 7c Ks (one pair, twos). MP has Ac Kc (one pair, twos). Outcome: MP wins $100.30. UTG wins $24.90. Therefore, I expect him to re-raise pre-flop so that I can shove; or if he calls to go crazy on a safe board for my hand, so elect to just call the initial raise from UTG who was 18/11/3 and who I'd expect to fold a midpair / AT type hand to any re-raise pre-flop but likely overplay such a hand post flop if I just flat called due to the presence of the maniac in the hand. Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com UTG ($103) Hero ($100) CO ($157.55) Button ($25.35) SB ($45.90) BB ($119) Preflop: Hero is MP with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $4</font>, Hero calls $4, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $4, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>. Flop: ($13.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $8</font>, Hero calls $8, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $21.35 (All-In)</font>, UTG calls $13.35, Hero calls $13.35. Turn: ($77.55) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font> <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $70</font>, Hero folds. River: ($147.55) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font> Final Pot: $147.55 |
#2
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Re: Turn fold with QQ
I don't understand this at all. Based on your reads, everything went according to plan until UTG called maniac's push and you ... why not push at that point?
And then the turn, why fold the turn? WTF? |
#3
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Re: Turn fold with QQ
[ QUOTE ]
so elect to just call the initial raise from UTG who was 18/11/3 and who I'd expect to fold a midpair / AT type hand to any re-raise pre-flop but likely overplay such a hand post flop if I just flat called due to the presence of the maniac in the hand [/ QUOTE ] This was your plan, so why did you chicken out? Your hand is so underrepped here and looks like a draw. I think I'd shove turn, but don't know how much I'd like it. |
#4
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Re: Turn fold with QQ
The large turn bet scares me. Maniac is all in at this point, he knows his hand is being showndown and therfore has less incentive to bluff. Moreover, he should feel safer checking down AJ type hands as he knows that I too am less likely to bluff given that my hand will be shown down. With this is mind the turn bet suggests a very big hand.
But that is why I posted this hand, as I was worried that it may be too weak of a fold? |
#5
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Re: Turn fold with QQ
I'd be more understandable if you raised PF and then called on the flop. But as played why would villian check AJ to what looks like a draw and give you a freecard?
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#6
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Re: Turn fold with QQ
just get it all in on the flop
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#7
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Re: Turn fold with QQ
[ QUOTE ]
just get it all in on the flop [/ QUOTE ] |
#8
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Re: Turn fold with QQ
[ QUOTE ]
just get it all in on the flop [/ QUOTE ] Often people are far too keen to let villain commit more to do that, especially with position. |
#9
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Re: Turn fold with QQ
Villan is 18/11, has raised UTG and made two large bets in a spot where he simply is not bluffing, therefore, if his range is
Im effectively getting (77.55+ 74.65): 74.65 ~ 2:1 here, so need to have 33% equity. Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 21,780 games 0.005 secs 4,356,000 games/sec Board: 8s Jc 3s Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 77.500% 75.33% 02.17% 16407 472.50 { JJ+, 88, AJs } Hand 1: 22.500% 20.33% 02.17% 4428 472.50 { QhQs } --- 30,690 games 0.005 secs 6,138,000 games/sec Board: 8s Jc 3s Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 60.761% 59.22% 01.54% 18175 472.50 { JJ+, 88, AJs, AJo } Hand 1: 39.239% 37.70% 01.54% 11570 472.50 { QhQs } --- 33,660 games 0.031 secs 1,085,806 games/sec Board: 8s Jc 3s Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 57.931% 56.53% 01.40% 19027 472.50 { JJ+, 88, AJs, KJs, AJo } Hand 1: 42.069% 40.67% 01.40% 13688 472.50 { QhQs } --- I've got enough equity here against his range if it includes AJo, as well as AJs. If his range does not include AJo then it is a fold. I think it's a closer decison than people are making out given his stats, and the fact that he raised UTG. Given also that maniac can turn up with a hand, if we include his equity in the pot then I think that folding is correct. As played I folded and he had a set of 8s. Maniac had J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] |
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