On the subject of colluders in online o8 games

[wiseheart]

Good analysis, so for me the key question becomes do I devote mental resources to actively trying to find colluders in my game or do I rely on Pokerstars to catch them (the ones that are obvious enough to catch) and just never worry about the subtle colluders because there is nothing to be done?

[Buzz]

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so for me the key question becomes do I devote mental resources to actively trying to find colluders in my game or do I rely on Pokerstars to catch them

[/ QUOTE ]Wiseheart - I don't know. What's the pay-off for you if you report someone for collusion?

Our circumstances are different since I play in brick and mortar casinos. I watch for collusion and quit the table when I suspect it. If the floor manager is good and we have rapport, then I quietly report it to the floor manager on my way out of the casino. (I'm not saying that's the best way to deal with it).

Buzz

[2handed]

To set up a successful collusion O8 team would in my opinion require a knowledge of the game that would allow the player to beat the game for a nice winrate playing fairly, and would take more effort within a hand than one might think to really utilize the edge knowledge of extra 4 cards possess. I think this situation makes it much less likely that anyone really capable of the kind of colluding that would cut into a winning player's profit would generally not be playing games below 10/20. At higher levels, there is more scrutiny and a smaller player pool, so it becomes more obvious who might be working together. I have never been too worried about colluders in the games i have been playing over the past year, which range from 15/30 to 100/200, although I most likely have been the victim of cooperative playing and cardsharing. If certain games or players start being unusually hard to beat I might be more on the lookout for this kind of thing, but so far it seems that the good players are hard to beat and the bad players easy. The edge of the former group comes from skilled play that is very comprehensible to me and the consistent losing of the bad players can be understood as the opposite. I will definitely post on 2p2 if my experience in this area changes.

[Buzz]

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To set up a successful collusion O8 team would in my opinion require a knowledge of the game that would allow the player to beat the game for a nice winrate playing fairly,...

[/ QUOTE ]Hi 2handed - I agree. However, I don't think some individuals are above cheating, even if they are able to beat the game without cheating.
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...and would take more effort within a hand than one might think to really utilize the edge knowledge of extra 4 cards possess.

[/ QUOTE ]It would take much more effort. I think some individuals would be willing to expend the extra effort to assure a higher profit.
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I think this situation makes it much less likely that anyone really capable of the kind of colluding that would cut into a winning player's profit would generally not be playing games below 10/20.

[/ QUOTE ]That's part of the hope in sticking to low limit games.
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At higher levels, there is more scrutiny and a smaller player pool, so it becomes more obvious who might be working together.

[/ QUOTE ]Yes. But I think very clever confederates could make it not very obvious.
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I have never been too worried about colluders in the games i have been playing over the past year, which range from 15/30 to 100/200, although I most likely have been the victim of cooperative playing and cardsharing.

[/ QUOTE ]Hard to say. Perhaps.
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If certain games or players start being unusually hard to beat I might be more on the lookout for this kind of thing,

[/ QUOTE ]Exactly. I think that's about all you can do.
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but so far it seems that the good players are hard to beat and the bad players easy.

[/ QUOTE ]Makes sense to me.
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I will definitely post on 2p2 if my experience in this area changes.

[/ QUOTE ]Thanks.

As dean, I got to sometimes see the seedy side of people. Even some individuals I highly respected before the glimpse turned out to have feet of clay. (Perhaps we all do in one way or another - but some definitely more so than others). At any rate, I have seen cheating in poker games and I'm wary of it.

Buzz

[RobNottsUk]

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I think this situation makes it much less likely that anyone really capable of the kind of colluding that would cut into a winning player's profit would generally not be playing games below 10/20.

[/ QUOTE ]That's part of the hope in sticking to low limit games.


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Bottom line is, Buzz is playing at a profit, even I thanks to forum has been playing FLO8 at a profit.

I am sure, sometime during my 2 years of online poker, that someone has been colluding.

But I am much more sure, that 95% of time, where it seems like someone has psychic premonition, or makes crazy plays that hurt me and are against their own interest, that actually it's been simple incompetence.

When somebody posts in a forum about online cheating, I tend to ask "How much has this cheating cost you, what have you lost?", usually the complainer is not keen to answer that.

Furthermore bad players, lose partly because they don't fix their failings, and project the blame onto "malevolent forces".


So, would most winning players, risk future earnings and disgrace by colluding?