Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?

[ilushan]

Well, it's so easy. Sorry, guys, I'll try to explain because otherwise OP will last forever.

He had a read that villain was 3-betting light. He had a strong hand. He wanted respect for his raises. He wanted to put a villain to a test if he had 99 or 1010. He didn't mind a coinflip this late in the tournament if villain had balls to call with middle pair.

It's basic late tournament strategy. Especially for the guys who are laughing at you in this thread. They made a lot of money thanks to the guys who are folding AK or calling OOP in this spot.

Sorry, Scott/mastr. I just can't stand it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Chump Change]

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so stop flaming and tell me why it is correct to get it all in with just A-K?

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CUZ U GOT AN ACE!!

AND A KING!!!!!!


AND ACE AND A MOTHER [censored] KING!!!!!!

[oyvindgee]

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nope.... sorry.

if you lose with KK to AA or AA to JJ or something then you can say "ah - wasn't ym day - nothing i could do about it".

but getting all in with A-K with that stack compared tot he blinds is criminal imo. the guy had him dominated. what was he hoping him to have? a-j or a-q? i doubt these would re-raise pre would/should obv fold to his shove.

but even if you got called by 9-9 and lost... i still don't get how you could say "i played it well - got al my chips in on a coinflip".

as i said... if his stack was short then it is totally different. but this was a wasted chance at the big one imo.

so stop flaming and tell me why it is correct to get it all in with just A-K?

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You are probably too dumb to understand this but I'm hungover and have nothing better to do.

I'm gonna make some assumptions that are almost certainly correct.

1. Mikkelsen is a good tournament player that will open a pretty wide range in the CO, especially with his stack.

2. Button knows this and is probably from time to time gonna reraise him with marginal holdings to pick up the pot preflop. This is a very standard move. Earlier in the thread, Clayton said Tran was indeed capable of this. You are stating in your post that you doubt AQ/AJ would reraise preflop. If you're gonna argue that point you are a lost case and you can stop reading.

So, when Tran has reraised, there is 750k in the pot which would represent a 30% increase in Mikkelsen's stack. Lets say Tran's range is something like 88+, AJo+, ATs+, KQs, T9s and 98s to account for random steal hands. Believe me, it could be way wider than that. If he only calls with JJ+, AK+, he will fold 62.5% of the time winning Mikkelsen the pot. The remaining 37.5% Mikkelsen will have 40% equity.

37.5% of the time, Mikkelsen will lose an average of 330k
62.5% of the time, he will win 750k

The stupididty in passing up an edge of more than 10 BB is obv not even debatable.

[UpstateMatt]

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nope.... sorry.

if you lose with KK to AA or AA to JJ or something then you can say "ah - wasn't ym day - nothing i could do about it".

but getting all in with A-K with that stack compared tot he blinds is criminal imo. the guy had him dominated. what was he hoping him to have? a-j or a-q? i doubt these would re-raise pre would/should obv fold to his shove.

but even if you got called by 9-9 and lost... i still don't get how you could say "i played it well - got al my chips in on a coinflip".

as i said... if his stack was short then it is totally different. but this was a wasted chance at the big one imo.

so stop flaming and tell me why it is correct to get it all in with just A-K?

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um, you seem to be missing the point: when you shove it in with AK here, you're expecting a lot of fold equity.

I mean, the way you're talking, I assume you think it's crazy to call a 3-bet all-in with 22-JJ, because "you're just a flip or dominated." Given that logic, doesn't AK have a TON of fold equity here?

/wasting my time on idiocy

[gutte169]

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but even if you got called by 9-9 and lost... i still don't get how you could say "i played it well - got al my chips in on a coinflip getting paid better than 1 to 1 so it's a positive EV wager, and if they both fold you increase your stack by around 33% "

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Yea, I could see myself being happy saying this if I lost out. But I'd be way happier with about 5,000,000 and a double up a way from the chip lead. I hope it's clear why this is standard now.

[Jeff76]

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it's just a drawing hand

[/ QUOTE ]No it's not.

[CincyLady]

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shocks me. it's really not that hard. it's just a drawing hand lol ffs.

Dag Martin Mikkelsen Eliminated in 42nd Place ($237,865)

Preflop, Dag Martin Mikkelsen raises to 150,000 in the cutoff and David Tran reraises to 500,000 on the button. Mikkelsen three-bets all in for 2,600,000 with A-K and Tran calls with A-A. Mikkelsen is out and Tran is up to 8,400,000.

bb was 50k. could have been a re-steal... but come on.... he prob has a pair and you're fliping or a big underdog.... maybe just call pre and at least see a flop? no - raises all in. i don't get it... he had over 60 x bb and was in the top 10 in chips.

seen countless other HH's where people play it like it's aces. if you have a low stack then fine....

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I agree, I layed down AK last week at the final table at Binions, and I even showed it (I wanted to give an image of being very tight as well), and you should of heard the gasps.

I was in the BB, and the UTG (who was 2nd in chips) raised it up to half my stack (I wasn't short stacked).

I knew if I played it would be for all my chips, so I layed it down.

Good thing, because the UTG shocked that I layed it down (and showed it), turned over AA.

[Hurrrr]

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shocks me. it's really not that hard. it's just a drawing hand lol ffs.

Dag Martin Mikkelsen Eliminated in 42nd Place ($237,865)

Preflop, Dag Martin Mikkelsen raises to 150,000 in the cutoff and David Tran reraises to 500,000 on the button. Mikkelsen three-bets all in for 2,600,000 with A-K and Tran calls with A-A. Mikkelsen is out and Tran is up to 8,400,000.

bb was 50k. could have been a re-steal... but come on.... he prob has a pair and you're fliping or a big underdog.... maybe just call pre and at least see a flop? no - raises all in. i don't get it... he had over 60 x bb and was in the top 10 in chips.

seen countless other HH's where people play it like it's aces. if you have a low stack then fine....

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I agree, I layed down AK last week at the final table at Binions, and I even showed it (I wanted to give an image of being very tight as well), and you should of heard the gasps.

I was in the BB, and the UTG (who was 2nd in chips) raised it up to half my stack (I wasn't short stacked).

I knew if I played it would be for all my chips, so I layed it down.

Good thing, because the UTG shocked that I layed it down (and showed it), turned over AA.

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Results oriented much?

[SumZero]

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I agree, I layed down AK last week at the final table at Binions, and I even showed it (I wanted to give an image of being very tight as well), and you should of heard the gasps.


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I agree that it is totally situation dependent, but think OP's hand was very standard. I laid down AKo to a raise at a live final table yesterday. Everyone was fairly short stacked and playing the very live tight style. Most of the table was only playing phil style poker with 77+,AQ+. With no antes UTG open pushed all-in for ~7 BB (this was around the typical stack size). I had about 15-20 BB and AKo in UTG+1. I was abusing the table with raises and liked my stack size and didn't like getting involved for a significant number of chips with the whole rest of the table left to act. My fold was probably too weak tight, but that's my style. Of course 3 hands latter I pushed with 74s in the SB and got the BB to fold with only 2 BB left behind! I pushed in the CO and LP and got no callers. So my lay down was partially under the knowledge that I'd have later better opportunities as long as I kept my stack size what it was. In a tournament with better people left I'd have been forced to repop with my AKo hand.

[DannyOcean_]

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[ QUOTE ]
I agree, I layed down AK last week at the final table at Binions, and I even showed it (I wanted to give an image of being very tight as well), and you should of heard the gasps.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that it is totally situation dependent, but think OP's hand was very standard. I laid down AKo to a raise at a live final table yesterday. Everyone was fairly short stacked and playing the very live tight style. Most of the table was only playing phil style poker with 77+,AQ+. With no antes UTG open pushed all-in for ~7 BB (this was around the typical stack size). I had about 15-20 BB and AKo in UTG+1. I was abusing the table with raises and liked my stack size and didn't like getting involved for a significant number of chips with the whole rest of the table left to act. My fold was probably too weak tight, but that's my style. Of course 3 hands latter I pushed with 74s in the SB and got the BB to fold with only 2 BB left behind! I pushed in the CO and LP and got no callers. So my lay down was partially under the knowledge that I'd have later better opportunities as long as I kept my stack size what it was. In a tournament with better people left I'd have been forced to repop with my AKo hand.

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YOU

FOLDED

AK

FOR

7

MOTHER

[censored]

BB'S

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG