really, really deep top set hand

[AjiNoMo]

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I think half pot is the worst possible play here, what do you do if you bet half the pot and he goes all in?

Any read on the button? If I'm feeling lucky I bet 1800-2k and call a shove, and shove the river if called. If I think the button is likely to have called the flop here with the nut flush (possible for most players, some guys are always going to raise though) I check and give up if he bets the pot.

I assume you don't have the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

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What do you mean "if i'm feeling lucky"? If you bet out 2K and he shoves, there'd be 7500 in the pot. You're getting 7:1 on your money for a 4,5:1 to hit your full house. You would have to call, you got yourself committed.

Half potting gets you info, may enable you to bluff on river given the right read on villain while still leaving you a chance to correctly fold if he shoves. In case he puts you on a J hi flush against his nuts, he may chose to just call, leaving you with great implied odds in case you improve on the river.

[cmyr]

I think preflop is awful, since you're going out of your way to bloat a pot OOP against a button you're describing as aggressive, which for deep money is a pretty awful place to be.


your options are c/f or b/c/. I think the important factor is whether or not your opponent could fold a J-high flush here... in a live situation alot of players just couldn't. If you bet and get repopped by the nuts you're committed with your money in pretty bad.


best case scenario is that he's got QQ and is drawing dead, but that's hard to take advantage of since he'll fold if you pot the turn and take the pot away if you check. A smaller bet might let him see a pairing river card cheap, but to a thinking player it becomes obvious that you don't have the nuts. Maybe it's deep enough it doesn't matter?


All things considered I'd be leaning towards a bet/call here, hoping he has either a lower set or a small flush, but the times he gets it all in with like 58 of diamonds you're going to feel like an ass. Your preflop limp/reraise might also make it easier for villian to put you on a naked ace, and call down praying.

[Ribbo]

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I think preflop is awful, since you're going out of your way to bloat a pot OOP against a button you're describing as aggressive, which for deep money is a pretty awful place to be.

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Read and learn this sentence.

[pete fabrizio]

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[ QUOTE ]
I think preflop is awful, since you're going out of your way to bloat a pot OOP against a button you're describing as aggressive, which for deep money is a pretty awful place to be.

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Read and learn this sentence.

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this should be more specific. if you have the best equity, post-flop considered, there's nothing wrong with bloating a pot OOP, even against good/aggressive players. sometimes it even makes your post-flop equity better to be playing "shorter." but in this particular case i agree it was a bad idea.

[Kala1928]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think preflop is awful, since you're going out of your way to bloat a pot OOP against a button you're describing as aggressive, which for deep moneyis a pretty awful place to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read and learn this sentence.

[/ QUOTE ]

this should be more specific. if you have the best equity, post-flop considered, there's nothing wrong with bloating a pot OOP, even against good/aggressive players. sometimes it even makes your post-flop equity better to be playing "shorter." but in this particular case i agree it was a bad idea.

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It was described here.

[pete fabrizio]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think preflop is awful, since you're going out of your way to bloat a pot OOP against a button you're describing as aggressive, which for deep moneyis a pretty awful place to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read and learn this sentence.

[/ QUOTE ]

this should be more specific. if you have the best equity, post-flop considered, there's nothing wrong with bloating a pot OOP, even against good/aggressive players. sometimes it even makes your post-flop equity better to be playing "shorter." but in this particular case i agree it was a bad idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was described here.

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huh? i'm not talking about the hand, i'm talking about the principle.

and i don't know why you bolded "deep stacks." by bloating the pot preflop, you are playing shorter money post-flop, for higher stakes.

[cmyr]

right, but when you're this deep that bloating doesn't make it possible (barring lots of cooperation) to get it in on the flop, so you're still going to be faced with big-bet OOP spots.