mini quiz

[BobboFitos]

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A: bluff

B: Q-A, and maybe a J.

C: 28

D: bluff

E: I prefer check/folding, then check/raising, check/calling last.

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I think ive taught you well =)

but im surprised you're not firing on alot of turns

[Grunch]

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grunch, how exactly is the person c/r'ing supposed to have an ace ? AJ maybe, but no TAG really c/r's flop with AJ.


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Not sure I understand the question. If we 2-barrel on a turn Ace and the opponent check-raises, he probably has a hand stronger than just one pair with the Ace.

But that's kind of the point. He usually doesn't have an Ace, so when the Ace falls and we bet again, his Jack doesn't look so good anymore. That's why an Ace is a good card to double barrel.

[BobboFitos]

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If we hate C/C here, what is ratio of CR:CF?

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My own ratio (im a big fan of self analyzing to the point that I try to match what I deem proper ratios.. I could be whacko and all my ratios are wrong, but so far, winrate disagrees) is something like c/f 75%, and of the remaining 25% sometimes i have a set, sometimes I actually flop a draw (w/ the pp) and the other % whatever it is im going to run a bluff!

[BobboFitos]

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I like breaking a bet into a bluff, where I am trying to move my opponent off a better hand, a value bet, where I am trying to get my opponent to call, or a protectionary bet, which is the in between; generally, I dont mind a call or a fold, largely because im protecting some of my pot equity and more or less this just inflates the pot.

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Bobbo, I don't think these are fair criteria, since a bet is often trying to do simultaneously do several different things to different parts of Villain's range. Quiz question number 1 can't really be broken down into one of these three categories, since our bet is really trying to bluff any better hand (obv. unsuccessfully against many of them like AA), or value-bet a worse hand (like making AK pay to draw out on us).

I also don't understand the distinction between value and protectionary bets, since in both cases we're trying to force Villain to choose between a -EV call or forfeiting his equity in the pot (by folding), both of which are +EV for us.

I guess we could argue that we have the best hand a little more often than not here (IMHO, quick estimate based mostly on cominatorics), pushing this to be a value/protectionary bet a slim majority of the time. But that doesn't mean that I want (edit55 to call.

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Fair enough, alot of people simply lump those categories together, the big distinction is when you compare a hand you think you're value betting to a particular calling (or c/r or reraising) range, w/ the pot odds given to opponent, they should be sticking around. And you want them to make a mistake. Most bets are actually protectionary in nature, which is why poker is a game of marginal situations; its also why bet sizing is a huge part of the game, but not talked about very much on the boards... using different bet sizes you can manipulate the prices given, which in turn may change the nature of your bet!

[Dan Bitel]

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So obv fire again on a 3 and probably an ace as well, as you can now fold out KJ/QQ/KK

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An ace is pretty blankish, tho - how often are we c/r TPTK or MPTK etc? If villain is thinking, every card is a blank due to the flop texture, minus maybe top pair if he thinks we're bad (and would check raise it) or one of the gutterball cards (if he thinks we need to have a semibluff in order to bluff)

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Firstly, I'm sure an ace is very easily in our flop C/R range if 33 is. Say we call preflop with Axs or even just flat with AQ for some reason, then I could easily see myself C/R this flop a decent % of the time.

Also, even IF villain doesn't know this, the simple fact is that he'll get scared. He'll see us C/R the flop and then fire again on the turn, obviously not scared, and he'll look down at his Jx or KK/QQ and think to himself that he doesnt want to get stacked

[Isura]

Yeah I agree, the paint cards are better to bluff than the low ones. Mid pairs/Jx don't fold on a blank turn.

[Hoopster81]

A. Bluff
B. 3, J, A probably
C. $32
D. Bluff unless we 2-outer
E. c/f or lead turn can both be used

[dd323]

[ QUOTE ]
We want to make a bet which actually makes it easy to push the river. Of course, if THAT bet is called, we probably (most of the time) will just give up, but threatening opponents stack is a common play known as leveraging. A bet of 23 or so seems weak, as its just half pot, but it sets you up for a good price, with 90 in the pot and 55 behind.


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Bobbos,
I think at 1/2 this small a bet gets picked off a lot more (although this is how i would play a set in reality), and I think a lot of mediocre to bad tags who play this level tend to make a bigger bet than this with a set, because they aren't thinking a street ahead. In general I like your naswer, but I would not bet less than $30 here. Against a good player, I like your bet sizing.

[dardo]

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for all those saying protectionary, it seems bad that your protecting when its easy to get shoved off your hand by air here since your repping exactly 44 that can call a shove. Therefore hands like 57, 78, 53, even AK can just shove and expect you to fold often.

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Don't you think this counterbluff shove is very risky as we could decide to call with an overpair or even TPTK?

[djg]

(semigrunch) dbitel's first response is basically perfect. fwiw i would very rarely continue on the turn w/o spiking my set.