#21
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Re: Top two gets bet hard into
[ QUOTE ]
he either has a set or a badly played combo draw. i really doubt he ever shows up with complete air, maybe 88 or something v rarely. i'd call and probably call most blank rivs. [/ QUOTE ] lucky you're normally spot on and a very good poster, but i need to disagree with you here. if we can label villain as draw or set - nothoing in the middle (like 1 pair or air) then calling both streets is bad. reason is - you're not charging the draw on the turn nor are you getting away from the set. on the river i assume you're folding to a heart, and auto calling w/ boat. but it means on the blanks and he bets again in order to call (since he never has air) its that set or missed flush draw (or combo draw, i guess) id pretty much shove and not think twice - if villain could ever have air (so bluff % goes up) then calling and calling makes sense. here the value lays on the turn |
#22
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Re: Top two gets bet hard into
BTW, what doyou guys do with 88 then? its important given the assumptions made that 88 = KQ.
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#23
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Re: Top two gets bet hard into
[ QUOTE ]
BTW, what doyou guys do with 88 then? its important given the assumptions made that 88 = KQ. [/ QUOTE ] no way, KQ has tons more equity vs. draws than 88 and 2 more outs vs. a set |
#24
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Re: Top two gets bet hard into
How do you think vilian plays AQ here? flop lead is standard, do you expect him to check on a 2 tone flop? I really don't see why he couldn't fire again a good percent of the time. I'd expect him to be pretty agro with those stats.
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#25
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Re: Top two gets bet hard into
how is this not a textbook shove?
edit: he could easily put u on a pair not KK, AA, or QQ reedited: which brings us to bobbos point |
#26
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Re: Top two gets bet hard into
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] BTW, what doyou guys do with 88 then? its important given the assumptions made that 88 = KQ. [/ QUOTE ] no way, KQ has tons more equity vs. draws than 88 and 2 more outs vs. a set [/ QUOTE ] firstoff, I mean for the river secondoff, no, you're wrong. on the flop 88 has more outs vs a set - and in terms of value vs draws, NFD is roughly the same vs both. there are no gut+flushes, so i guess if he has just a raggedy flush draw which hasovers > 8 is where you have mroe equity with KQ. thirdoff, on the turn if its a draw or its a set only difference is 2 more outs with KQ. honestly. and if he folds a draw to a push, then its possible a pushw/ ATC is profitable. reason is because KQ is basically a semibluff; betting he has a draw, and if he doesnt, you have 4 outs. relative strength values tailored around villains hand range here. obviously vs fish and other players w/ wider range KQ is substantially stornger then 88 on the flop and turn (and river!) but in this example they are the same. |
#27
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Re: Top two gets bet hard into
call seems week, im also curious why we would wanna do this. Dont we loose alot value against flush? He really have 77,22 enough here?
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#28
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Re: Top two gets bet hard into
wow bobbo totally pwned this thread, i stand corrected [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img].
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#29
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zultz
I shoved the turn and he called with 22. River K.
OHHHHHJJJ!!!KKDKLPOEOE!!??&&77^6%GGGG!! |
#30
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Re: zultz
[ QUOTE ]
I shoved the turn and he called with 22. River K. OHHHHHJJJ!!!KKDKLPOEOE!!??&&77^6%GGGG!! [/ QUOTE ] well we knew that was happening.. duhhhh |
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