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Old 03-15-2006, 11:46 AM
Bond18 Bond18 is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Default A post about why we\'re all winners (but im still a loser)

So I’ve been losing online, for some time now, 5 months really. Over roughly an 80,000 hand sample (35k on poker tracker but in the few months before that I can VERY confidently say I put in at least 45k more) playing 24/16/2.5 poker I am a monstrous loser. After getting PT and PAHUD and noticing how many 40/20/1, 10/5/1.5, 60/30/2.5, not to mention god knows how many 30/15/1.4 players there are out there, very few of which probably put much thought into their game (certainly not on a daily obsessive level like us poker geeks), a thought occurred to me. Against these players, at these limits, playing as I am and always attempting to improve, how long can I really lose for? Can these players plus the rake really have the edge over me long term? (Even more disturbing about my losing streak was in that stretch I was receiving a weekly payment of anywhere from 62.5 to 100% RB depending on the site I was on and still in that period did not show a profit.)

Alright here’s another question. If a top pro, say Johnny Chan, Howard Lederer, or even some of the guys on this forum whose knowledge of the game freaks me out, sits 1 table of online 15/30 6 max and plays perfect poker (not perfect in the idea that when an opponent bluffs T high he knows about it and calls down on J high, but perfect in that all his decisions cause him to gain the most when he’s ahead and lose the least when he’s behind) what’s this players max BB/100 expected rate? It’s up for debate but upon conferring with other expert players we settled in the area of 4-5 BB’s. For arguments sake, let’s make it 4.5 (by all means post your on thoughts on what this number is.)

Now assuming that 4.5 BB/100 is the absolute perfect maximum amount of you can earn from an online game with a standard mix of players per hour lets start to look at what happens every time you make a mistake. Lets throw in some very plausible mistakes that could perhaps occur, once per 100 hands. First lets say you reach the river on a board that you’ve been betting the whole way but the turn and river have made it nasty, so you play it safe and check. Unfortunately your opponent checks behind with a hand he would have called one more bet with, down to 3.5. Now a few hands later, lets say your facing a river bet with the pot laying you 8.5 to 1. You decide the odds aren’t there on your hand and fold, but in fact you were incorrect and the odds your opponent was bluffing or worse than you was in fact 7 to 1, you lose another 1.5 down to 2BB/100. Lastly let’s say your facing a river raise on a pot that’s 11 to 1 and estimate the odds your opponent would bluff raise you here are 10 to 1 and call. Boom, your down to your 1BB/100. If your not careful from there all of sudden you’re a losing player. This is why we have to be studious, this is why we have to pour over HH after HH debating, fold this river or call this river? This is why you pay coaches, and why you pour over your 1000’s of hands thinking “how can I improve my win rate by .25BB/100? Where’s the holes???”

Now here’s the comforting part ladies and gentleman. While this example demonstrates why we strive for such enormous perfection in our play, it misses one aspect, your opponents play is often and likely much worse. I witnessed a hand today that put all my fears that I’d never win again permanently to rest when I realized its significance.

Playing 10/20 6 max on pacific I was dealt 7 7 in the BB
Utg limped, utg+1 limped, CO folds, button raises, SB calls, I call, limpers call

Flop: Q 6 3 rainbow
SB checks, I check, utg checks, utg+1 checks, button bets, SB raises, I fold, utg folds, utg+1 folds, button calls.

Turn: 3
SB bets, button raises, SB 3 bets, button calls.

River: 9
SB bets, button calls.

The SB held 62 offsuit. The button held QT offsuit.

While you don’t see players playing like this every hand of every day I realized something from watching it. If you play well, work hard, study and try to learn, then against the field of opponents we face today, in the end you are the favorite to win. Sure perhaps of 10’s of thousands of hands you will be losing, but with enough time, and within your bankroll, over enough hands, you will win. While we surely make mistakes daily, look how many, and of such magnitude, our opponents make against us. None of us are actually stupid enough to 3 bet the turn on what’s now bottom pair bottom kicker against a player who raised us on the flop. We couldn’t be as bad as them if we tried. So keep at it, keep reading, it’ll turn around eventually, I’m sure of it.
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