Whats up with the 8?

[Buzz]

Jorge - I know that some think and/or have written that a nine is the worst card in the deck to have in your starting hand, but I think, and have thought for a while, that an eight in a starting hand is even worse than a nine. Might depend on the tightness of the game.

At any rate, hands with eights plus all high cards are generally poor. You've made these all double suited, which makes the two with suited aces playable for me, but even double suited they're not great. The KQJ8d hand is at best very marginal for me. Maybe I'll play it for a bet in late position to expand the range of hands seen as playable by me to my opponents when I have been playing very tightly. Or maybe I'll see the flop cheaply for a bet from late position or for a half bet from the small blind if I haven't been playing much. I believe it's a disadvantage in my games to be perceived as having too tight an image. But if I've recently been playing a lot of hands, I'll probably let at least the KQJ8d hand go, even for a half bet from the small blind.

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I have been playing these hands and so far I cant remember winning much with them.

[/ QUOTE ]Exactly.

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Does the 8 just make these type of hands worthless?

[/ QUOTE ]An eight or seven is probably the worst fourth card to go with AKJXd or AJTXd. Six or nine are close to worst.

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I mean it plays with the J and the 10.

[/ QUOTE ]It does. But when you have two other high cards in your hand, even when you flop the nut straight using T-8, you'll either end up sharing with low or a better high will become possible. When you're drawing to the straight both of these possibilities loom and you don't even have the straight yet. That's also largely true of J-8 straights and straight draws, although at least low is unlikely when you flop a nut jack high straight using J-8.

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I cant figure out if I am just running terrible or if they are just bad hands to play.

[/ QUOTE ]Probably both.

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How are you guys doing with these hands?

[/ QUOTE ]I don't expect to win much with them. But they do expand my playable range in the eyes of my opponents when I manage to show them, and that's a plus for collecting with the other hands. And if you can get in cheaply in a loose game, although it might seem a slight leak, maybe the advertising is worth it - and at least the fun of playing more hands is.

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Is it a leak to play them?

[/ QUOTE ]I don't know. Very hard to measure because you don't play each hand in a vacuum. Showing them down does make your other hands more profitable.

Buzz