For moral relativists

[wtfsvi]

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What if it's voluntary in the sense that you are free to join another society. However there is no guarantee that another society will let you join and there's no guarantee that a society with rules to your liking exists.

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You're ignoring that people are not free to join another society. If I want to switch barbers, I can do so. If I want to "join another society" I have to physically relocate (and even then, some "societies" will attempt to prevent me from doing so;


[/ QUOTE ] I did not ignore those things. They are right there in my post.

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even the US will claim ongoing tax obligations on those who both leave and renouce citizenship).

[/ QUOTE ] I didn't know that. That sounds messed up.

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My barber doesn't use force to maintain a territorial monopoly, and if he tried, everyone would agree that he's acting illegitimately.

[/ QUOTE ] You think your barber would be fine with me and some of my friends moving into his shop? It's just for a couple of weeks till we can find something better. We'll try to only throw parties between 4pm and 8am.

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A "love it or leave it" arrangement is not voluntary - unless the party issuing the ultimatum is the rightful owner of the property one must leave if he does not agree to the proposal.

[/ QUOTE ] So who says who the rightful owner is? I bet most people would think the american people are the rightful owners to the land in the U.S, yet you don't accept a "love it or leave it" arrangement from the american people.