.5/1 A8 BB defense

vixticator · #1 11-01-2007, 05:48 PM

Button loves to steal and always c-bets. This is a pretty standard line for me on this kind of flop HU, especially when I hit the board. But, backdoor straight draw plus I think I could have the best hand.

I hit an out on the turn, I think. But I decide to play it like I was scared of it which isn't standard but this opponent was very laggy. Probably outplayed myself, maybe not. Thoughts on turn? Should I use this line against some players or just go ahead and bet out like always?

River value bet + crying call. I don't know if my line looks weak or strong so don't think I can fold at this point. C/C river perhaps?

Just fold the flop? Fold preflop? I don't like those either. Anyway I'll stop yapping. Like some feedback on this one.

Full Tilt 0.50/1 Hold'em (4 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button calls.

River: (9.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.75 BB

BadBigBabar · #2 11-01-2007, 05:50 PM

if button loves to steal then just 3bet pf and lead the flop.
your line is spew.
fold to the flop 3bet.
given that you didn't, checkcall the turn and the river.

vixticator · #3 11-01-2007, 05:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
if button loves to steal then just 3bet pf and lead the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]Good point. Should I ever take this line preflop and on the flop when I hit nothing??

KitCloudkicker · #4 11-01-2007, 05:56 PM

flop CR is terrible imo

i doubt you're ever good on the river but since you bloated the pot so much i guess folding would be difficult for one to accomplish

Sushiglutton · #5 11-01-2007, 06:03 PM

If you c/c the flop how do you expect villain to play the turn (what hands will he check, which ones will he bet?).

Sushiglutton · #6 11-01-2007, 06:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
fold to the flop 3bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't tink that's possible. We have BDSD and an OC. Also the '8'-outs may be good. Finally villain may check the turn. Folding to the 3-bet is very bad IMO.

Xylocain · #7 11-01-2007, 06:17 PM

Whats with all this anti c/r flop sentiment?

I think thats a perfectly fine line if button steals a lot and have some weak tendencies post flop. Call the 3-bet then call down from turn expect to win. The spew occurs as played on turn and river IMO. To keep flinging poo will just alow Vil to fold a worse hand and raise a better.

Maybe bet the river you if c/c turn.

[i]Edit, he has AA or 99 right?

vixticator · #8 11-01-2007, 06:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you c/c the flop how do you expect villain to play the turn (what hands will he check, which ones will he bet?).

[/ QUOTE ]I wanted information OOP, which is why I raised post-flop. Didn't really want to 3bet with this weak of a hand preflop either OOP. I think he folds nothing here which is most of his range IMO, peels some Ace high or King high hands. With the 3bet he for sure has at least middle pair big kicker, or most likely top pair and up. I think I'm getting the right price so I call. Turn I c/r for value and fold to 3bet. Think I have best hand as played since he did just call there. Possible trap or I could be betting into a better Ace if he gets frisky with AJ+ on the flop. River I think I'm beat facing raise but meh can't fold now IMO.

Oink · #9 11-01-2007, 06:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
fold to the flop 3bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

No! Now Hero bloatet the pot and since villain will 3-bet with draws and 7x Hero has pretty much committed himself to SD if bricks comes of

[ QUOTE ]
flop CR is terrible imo

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely agree. You eq isnt great and the only hands that fold are worse hands.

I HATE this line on these boards.

[ QUOTE ]
I wanted information OOP, which is why I raised post-flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Go play NL if you want to raise for info. In SH LHE the info you get is so noisy its useless. All you accomplish is bloating the pot with a marginal hand forcing you to make decisions later in the pot that is costly either way. (Folding best hand in a big pot or calling down as a dog)

DONT BLOAT POTS WITH MARGINAL HANDS!

@ OP

Preflop: 3-bet if villain is lose pre and/or postflop.
Call if villain stops giving you action on Axx flops since ZOMG HE 3-BET HE HAS A MONSTER.

Flop. As played this is a must c/c. There is no other way you can play it and if someone tells you any differently you should blacklist them.

As played I dont mind your turn c/r but its thin. You run the risk of him folding pp's and if he had a draw on the flop you really dont gain anything in case he would have 3-barreled.

River is the standardest fold of all standard folds. Learn to fold TP in the right spots this is one of them.

BadBigBabar · #10 11-01-2007, 07:00 PM

yea you guys are right about not raisefolding; it's not the right spot for it, and i was wrong to post it. i just wanted to emphasize how much i didn't like op's line, i guess. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] we have immediate odds to see a turn for aces, eights, and a few bd draws. thanks oink.