All-in decisions

[reemas]

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Fold Preflop

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great advice.

also brush your teeth 2-3 times a day.
and take your vitamins.

[Small Fry]

What does your own analysis tell you? And maybe you're not be as good as you thought about not tilting if this hand is still bothering you?

But to answer your question..... If the other players are going to do pull this stuff of course you must call

[waveydavey]

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I think I've seen Pokey figure something like this out before in the following way:

3 combos each of 44, 88, and JJ, 6 combos for AA for a total of 15 that beat you. 14 combos (not exactly sure if this is 14 or 16) each of AJ, KJ, and QJ for a total of 42 combos that you beat. You are way ahead of everything else that would call preflop and play this way. So this is a clear call. I don't know if I could do this during the hand, Pokey's a math wiz.

Edit: I think you could even discount a set a little as I'm not sure they would be this aggressive with it even on a 2 flush board. I think you would be more likely to see a c/r all in if they had a set.

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Thank you for giving me a reasoned answer!!

Now here's something you mentioned - aggressiveness. And this is part of my problem, I've seen plenty of players go all-in with absolutely nothing to push you out of the pot, and I've seen plenty of players go all-in with a top set trying to suck you in with an over pair. These SnGs are full of bigger fish than I am, and I'm pretty good at playing tight and getting into the money.

A check-raise probably would have sunk me as I never seem to be able to get away from those, something I need to work on, but even if I read such an aggressive bet as a bluff, or semi-bluff, am I risking too much in the early stages of a tournament?

[waveydavey]

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What does your own analysis tell you? And maybe you're not be as good as you thought about not tilting if this hand is still bothering you?

But to answer your question..... If the other players are going to do pull this stuff of course you must call

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No, I seriously don't feel on tilt about it. The hand isn't bothering me, I'm trying to determine a good strategy for future situations. I have no analysis of my own, but here's another way of looking at it:

I have 60 blinds, my opponent has 80
He calls 2, I raise to 10, he calls another 8
He goes all-in on the flop.
If I fold I still have 50 blinds, he has 90 something.
I still have plenty of chips left to win the tournament with. I'm comfortable on the bubble with 10 blinds, (clearly I'd like more), but I've got to get there first.

[HeroInBlack]

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stop pretending like u dont know the right answer we all know this is a bad beat post (my pet peeve!). if u routinely consider folding KK on 48J 2flushed HU flops in a sng then u should quit poker

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I think we should give people the benefit of the doubt in the beginner forum. He might really not know if he did right or not.

OP: In any SNG with a $10 buy-in and down, folding KK as an overpair is almost never a +EV move.

[Small Fry]

Do you want to win or just get into the money?

The correct move is to call this bet. You did your analysis at the table, came to a reasonable conclusion and made the correct call. End of story. Your probably a 2-2.5:1 favorite here, maybe even more. This puts you at 65-75% to win. I don't know how you can think you can possibly wait, in a STT, to find a better spot.

If you start making it routine to fold to any push, any scare card, etc., constantly waiting for that better chance, then it's time to quit poker

[JH1]

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I think I've seen Pokey figure something like this out before in the following way:

3 combos each of 44, 88, and JJ, 6 combos for AA for a total of 15 that beat you. 14 combos (not exactly sure if this is 14 or 16) each of AJ, KJ, and QJ for a total of 42 combos that you beat. You are way ahead of everything else that would call preflop and play this way. So this is a clear call. I don't know if I could do this during the hand, Pokey's a math wiz.

Edit: I think you could even discount a set a little as I'm not sure they would be this aggressive with it even on a 2 flush board. I think you would be more likely to see a c/r all in if they had a set.

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Thank you for giving me a reasoned answer!!

Now here's something you mentioned - aggressiveness. And this is part of my problem, I've seen plenty of players go all-in with absolutely nothing to push you out of the pot, and I've seen plenty of players go all-in with a top set trying to suck you in with an over pair. These SnGs are full of bigger fish than I am, and I'm pretty good at playing tight and getting into the money.

A check-raise probably would have sunk me as I never seem to be able to get away from those, something I need to work on, but even if I read such an aggressive bet as a bluff, or semi-bluff, am I risking too much in the early stages of a tournament?

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No problem! I was thinking that this would need a bit of tweaking as obviously there are not 14 combos of KJ since you have 2 of the K's (ldo I just realized this), but you get the idea. This is difficult for me to figure out while playing as well. I have a tendency to see monsters everywhere and expecting to see villain with the nuts every time I call an all in, but I am trying to think more in terms of range rather than specific hands.

In this case, even if he ended up having JJ, I would say your call was still correct considering that you still beat his possible range. So if that happened and you end up being crushed on the flop, I think it can be argued that you still made the correct play. Of course this is all reads dependant and you need to seriously consider everything that villain might have and if the way they are playing it would be logical to them or not; get your read and trust it, don't second guess yourself.

[waveydavey]

HIB, SF and JH1. Thanks for your answers. Basically I'm over analysing it based on the stage of the tournament? It would be the correct call at any stage, if I'm reading you all right.

To Tweedledum and Tweedledee, may you continue to never doubt yourself, and never need to seek the helpful advice of other players.

[JH1]

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HIB, SF and JH1. Thanks for your answers. Basically I'm over analysing it based on the stage of the tournament? It would be the correct call at any stage, if I'm reading you all right.

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I wouldn't necessarily say that this is the correct play at any stage or against all opponents. You have to trust your reads. So if you can put more weight on something that beats you, lets say you are 50% positive that he has a set , then by all means fold.

In the last stages (read shortstacked) I never fold this, due to being shorthanded and most likely shortstacked and your made hands go up in value and decisions get easier because most of it will be preflop, but I might fold this in the early stages. It depends.

[waveydavey]

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HIB, SF and JH1. Thanks for your answers. Basically I'm over analysing it based on the stage of the tournament? It would be the correct call at any stage, if I'm reading you all right.

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I wouldn't necessarily say that this is the correct play at any stage or against all opponents. You have to trust your reads. So if you can put more weight on something that beats you, lets say you are 50% positive that he has a set , then by all means fold.

In the last stages (read shortstacked) I never fold this, due to being shorthanded and most likely shortstacked and your made hands go up in value and decisions get easier because most of it will be preflop, but I might fold this in the early stages. It depends.

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Understood. But I'm not confident about my reads yet. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]