Lakers and Bulls discussing Kobe trade daily

[Vyse]

L'ennmi, Hinrich / Kobe / Deng is an impossibility and would be stupid (shots become too crowded; you want to funnel everything around Kobe with great role-players / other good options) so you have to pick between playing with Deng along your centerpiece or Hinrich along with Kobe. I'd take Deng simply because Duhon replicates much of 1. What Hinrich already does and 2. What you would want out of a PG playing along with Kobe anyway. So it makes the most sense, esp since he's so ridiculously undervalued and still only 25. I'm not saying Duhon's some 35 mpg like Hinrich either but 28-30 mpg is fine and an lolDerekFisher or whatever works well enough.

Defensively, Duhon >> Hinrich on PGs, Hinrich's just more versatile cause he can guard two positions. But you have Kobe and Deng so it's not really a factor.

[Fonkey123]

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Well, these are the long-term contracts:

Hinrich: 9.5 mil for five (frontloaded)
Wallace: 44 mil / 3 years (frontloaded)
Gordon: 10 mil/yr for 5-6 years
Deng: 11 mil/yr for 5-6 years
Nocioni: 7.6 mil/yr for 5 years

That's about 51 million for a starting five. But that leaves Duhon / Thabo / Tyrus. Basically if they either stand pat or trade for Kobe management must be willing to go into luxury tax land because they'll still need 2 pieces to be the best team in the league.

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Yeah, I meant to say frontloaded meaning the the payscale is decreasing.

I knew Wallace's was and I thought Hinrich's was but I was too lazy to check.

In all actuality I don't think the bulls' trade for Kobe, don't sign Gordon right now and trade Gordon later in the season in a talent consolidation one closer to the deadline.

Last point, if Reinsdorf believes they have a championship team I have no doubt in my mind he goes into luxury land.

[L'ennemi.]

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Vyse, why do you assume the bulls can't keep everyone?

Deng and Gordon are the only ones left to sign, at least in the near future, and they have bird rights on both.

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Because four 10+ million players on a team = the salary cap? No flexibility? Stuck in "very good" but "not good enough"?

Right now the Bulls are already at 49.3 million... Kobe is making like 21 mil per for four years.

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You cannot reallly compete while being under the cap and maintaning flexiblity when your rookies contract are over Every team face the same problem. The cap is just too damn low given how teams overpay for every free agent.
If the Bulls want to compete for the next few years, they need to make a trade, pay everybody and close their eyes, or just pay everyoby and close their eyes if they have enough confidence in their current roster

[Vyse]

Every team doesn't face the same problem because their window of opportunity is larger. The Celts and, if the Bulls trade for Kobe, them too, have this problem because they don't have years to wait and pick off nice role-players for cheap using the MLE or getting solid NBA-ready guys in the draft like the Spurs and Mavs have been doing. They have a 3-year window (the Celts due to age / stars leaving, the Bulls due to Wallace leaving) so they have to hurry up.

It's easier to have the secondary parts when you're building up to this for a couple of years, not when you instantly put it together and your window is as a result much shorter.

EDIT: Proof of that would be the Bulls if they actually had a star-level player. They wouldn't need to trade for Kobe and they could pick and choose which of their young players offer the best value and have flexibility and such. But since they never lucked into that superstar they have to go get one.

[Fonkey123]

And as much as I'm pointing out that the bulls can/ and if it came to that would, pay everyone I feel a talent consolidation trade in the IMMEDIATE future.

Jermaine O'Neal is still on the market (apparently)
Rumblings coming from Elton Brand (if he can show he's close to previous form) then Tyrus+Noce(maybe)+ Thabo/Picks near the deadline

And usually every year there is someone that becomes unhappy near the deadline. Hell maybe even Okafor.

[Vyse]

The lone question I have is this: How far away is Tyrus Thomas? If he can be a defensive stalwart right now and be a good finisher (the Bulls run more than people think) then I don't see why they don't throw him in as a starter and see if he can become the missing piece and jsut turn the Bulls into a better team of the Pistons. They already have a stud bench and a lot of flexibility.

[Fonkey123]

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The lone question I have is this: How far away is Tyrus Thomas? If he can be a defensive stalwart right now and be a good finisher (the Bulls run more than people think) then I don't see why they don't throw him in as a starter and see if he can become the missing piece and jsut turn the Bulls into a better team of the Pistons. They already have a stud bench and a lot of flexibility.

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Skiles, is keeping his mouth shut about the starting lineup (I really have no idea why), but my gut is telling me that he wil be starting.

Also, Thomas doesn't have near the upside as some people think he does.

I still don't understand to this day why Paxson didn't go Aldridge/Brewer [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[L'ennemi.]

Actually it's very hard to have a window of opportunityy larger than three or four years: You need an absolute superstar like Duncan or shaq back in the day to keep you competitive.
Otherwise you need a couple of all stars, and you're really fast stucked far above the salary cap.
Look at the Suns, the pistons, the mavericks...

[Vyse]

Suns: Realistic contenders this year and probably next year. So in total, five years.

Mavs: Been contenders about four of the past five years, should be fine for the next 2-3 years too.

Pistons: Going on Year No. 6 this year. Should be fine for next year too.

Meanwhile, the Celts really aren't legit title contenders this year (remains to be proven, but I'd put Bulls / Pistons ahead, and come playoff time maybe the Cavs just cause of LBJ) and will probably be legit next year and in 09. That's just two years. If the Bulls got Kobe this second it's a little uncertain how long they'd be legit title contenders, probably this year + next two minimum.

[Fonkey123]

And, I really hate to stir rampant speculation, but check who's on the inactive list.

http://www.nba.com/news/rosters_set_071029.html

I don't think it's a big deal, since Odom is also on the list(don't think he's injured???) and they have until an hour before gametime to update it. But my interest is piqued.