Alternative energy and the Automobile Industry

[BCPVP]

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I think Ethanol could be the future, and I don't think alternative energy really damages the automobile industry, no matter what energy source we as Americans eventually turn to.

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From what I've read, ethanol seems like a scam. We can't seem to make it in such a way as to be energy positive and the amount of land needed to switch from gasoline to ethanol would be incredibly large.

Electric cars of some kind seem more like the future than ethanol (w/o gov't intervention distorting the market, obv). I sure wouldn't mind driving something that looks like the Tesla Roadster.

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There has been some pretty serious damage done to the enviroment from electric cars. link

Imagine what will happen when these cars outnumber normal combustion engine powered cars and this factories are set up all over America.

This is why I think Ethanol will ultimately win out.

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You think ethanol will win because the Prius sucks? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] The Prius isn't even an electric car; it's a hybrid.

[Jamougha]

Politics posters talking about tech, this should be funny. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[DblBarrelJ]

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I think Ethanol could be the future, and I don't think alternative energy really damages the automobile industry, no matter what energy source we as Americans eventually turn to.

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From what I've read, ethanol seems like a scam. We can't seem to make it in such a way as to be energy positive and the amount of land needed to switch from gasoline to ethanol would be incredibly large.

Electric cars of some kind seem more like the future than ethanol (w/o gov't intervention distorting the market, obv). I sure wouldn't mind driving something that looks like the Tesla Roadster.

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There has been some pretty serious damage done to the enviroment from electric cars. link

Imagine what will happen when these cars outnumber normal combustion engine powered cars and this factories are set up all over America.

This is why I think Ethanol will ultimately win out.

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You think ethanol will win because the Prius sucks? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] The Prius isn't even an electric car; it's a hybrid.

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Obviously you missed the large portion of that article. The nickel batteries they use in the prius are the same type used in all electric cars.

[Jamougha]

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The nickel batteries they use in the prius are the same type used in all electric cars.

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This isn't quite true. Most of the electric cars you can buy now are powered by lithium ion batteries, which pack more power per kilo and recharge faster. (There is a new type that can be recharged in only 5 minutes.)

The problem with Li-ions is that they loose a percentage of their capacity per year, typically about 20%. And they're very expensive, so the cost per mile of driving the car can be huge once replacement battery packs are factored in. For mainstream purposes we need some improvements.

There is a more advanced type of NiMH battery, which doesn't suffer from the memory effect of normal NiMH's and so lasts for many more charge cycles. This makes the end-to-end carbon emissions much better and they were used to build the RAV 4 EV. Unfortunately an oil company bought the patents and is refusing to allow anyone to use the technology.

There is a new type of battery based on aluminum in development that may knock everything else for six and make electric cars viable, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[pvn]

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everything should be powered by water. like steam engines

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Steam engines are (usually) powered by coal (sometimes wood or oil). The POWER comes from the heat generated by burning something. The steam is just a transport medium for that power.

<font color="white"> I figure there's about a 50% chance that I'm being leveled. </font>

[tame_deuces]

Actually, if every industry had made as much progress as the car industry we'd be greener already. Not that outside pressure (legal ones amongst others) hasn't helped in this process, but that is besides my point.

It is easy to make them out as the big bad wolf for environmentalists, but believe it or not - one of the major incentives for that is that there is a ton of money around being a major environmentalist organization these days, and the car industry sponsors a lot of environmental research.

Accusing these sponsored groups of 'hopeless bias' is a nice cheapshot way of making sure big wallops of cash from other donators fall into your own organization's pocket.

I've met leaders of rather small environmental organizations based on voluntary members picking up around 250k US a year.

[DblBarrelJ]

You are correct, but as you said yourself....

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Politics posters talking about tech, this should be funny. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[JayTee]

I remember reading or hearing somewhere that GE had bought up several different "green" patents that had been held by some oil companies.

Also, it seems that corn is much less efficient than sugar cane for making fuel, but good luck with that.

[Orlando Salazar]

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Everyone knows the auto industry lobbies heavily against emissions standards dot dot dot et cetera...

From a policy perspective, what are some potential productive ways to promote alternative or renewable energy without harming the automobile industry?

Subsidizing hybrid research and development?

That's all I can think of, cuz I'm a tard.

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bio butanol

[Ineedaride2]

This article was very interesting to me. I wish I was as good at anything as this guy is with vehicles.

It seems that the auto industry has no intentions on being revolutionary. They will only change as much as they have to to stay competitive.

Even the market leaders evolve a little at a time. I'm interested in seeing how Tesla motors affects the industry.