50NL, Totally lost with AA

[aaiiooo]

Only been at the table for a few hands. Villain seems to be open limping a bit.


Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $54.75
BB: $50.05
UTG: $90.70
Hero (CO): $49.75
BTN: $53.65

Preflop: Hero is dealt A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 Players)
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2.50</font>, 3 folds, UTG calls $2.00

Flop: ($5.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $4.00</font>, UTG calls $4.00

Turn: ($13.75) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $9.00</font>, UTG calls $9.00

River: ($31.75) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $28.50</font>, Hero ???

Just dont get what he's calling me with on the flop, 88, overpair, underpair. No clue whats going on here. Should I really be folding this against your average 50nl player?

[thing85]

Yes, this is an easy fold IMO.

[n4rf]

Could be a flush draw on the flop and he's trying to take the pot down on the river?

[thing85]

[ QUOTE ]
Could be a flush draw on the flop and he's trying to take the pot down on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

At 50NL, you rarely see a bluff this large on the river (when no prior aggression has been shown). Donks like to bluff their missed draws with 1/3-2/3 the pot. Betting almost the full pot here seems like he wants to get value for his big hand. If we had a better read on villain, this would be an easier decision.

[Sean Fraley]

It's a small pot on the turn and there is too much money behind to really be trying to get it all-in. Just check behind on the turn and call up to a pot size bet. If you don't have the SPR to be commit, pot control is your friend.

[mojed]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a small pot on the turn and there is too much money behind to really be trying to get it all-in. Just check behind on the turn and call up to a pot size bet. If you don't have the SPR to be commit, pot control is your friend.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do we call a pot size bet if a third spade hits?

[Lego05]

C'mon...betting the turn is fine. Mid-pair or flush draw is a huge portion of his range and turn is value time.

Sure you could check behind and get some in on river but you're gonna miss out on value that way against a lot of opponents IMO.

River's tricky cause the missed flush doesn't usually make that big of a bluff....and I doubt the midpair bets that big. Good chance of a 3 or some monster I think.


And particularly to Sean....I haven't read PNL...but just cause you bet the turn doesn't mean you have to committ to getting all your chips in.

And even so it's really all about hand ranges and equities vs. those ranges and being able to extract vs. those ranges. I'm kinda skeptical about SPR and especially if you just let it take over decisions like this and other decisions on whether or not to bet or decisions whether or not to get all-in even. Since I haven't read the book though I can't really make a definitive comment about the concept as you mean it.



I guess you like the book so yea but I'll ask anyway: Do you think that book would be worth it for me to get and read?

[AAmucked]

I can see J10ss or 56ss turning up here a lot, possibly trying to look like a busted draw by betting pot. I immediately thought call here but a lot of a decent UTG limping range that calls two streets got there or already was there by the river, and a lot of that range won't bet out pot with showdown value (89ss, 109ss)

This board makes it incredibly obvious he either has a FD or a big hand when he calls two streets, if he's halfway decent he's betting on that when he donks pot into you on the river. It just seems really unlikely he's turning 55/66 into a bluff and villain would have to be pretty retarded to bluff a missed FD on this board

[aaiiooo]

Just to show how incredibly difficult it is to put these guys on a hand, I actually called and he had....

56 of clubs, yeah CLUBS! he called nearly a pot sized bet on the flop with.. umm a pair draw? and a back door straight draw, lol.

I'm finding it very difficult to fold in these situations against non-regulars because of all the really strange stuff thats turning up when I do call (and obv cos I'm a fish). He really has to have 77, 88, or 99, but.. err.. no

[Sean Fraley]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's a small pot on the turn and there is too much money behind to really be trying to get it all-in. Just check behind on the turn and call up to a pot size bet. If you don't have the SPR to be commit, pot control is your friend.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do we call a pot size bet if a third spade hits?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes we do. Generally if you check behind the turn it is for two reasons:

1) Pot control/Induce a bluff. In this case you have pretty much obligated yourself to call the bet since you took an action that quite possibly goaded villain into making it. The third spade hitting quite possibly makes it even more likely that villain will bluff since it gives him a scare card to make it more believable.

2) We are shutting down. In this case we have given up on this hand and already decided to fold to any further action.

Keep in mind that significantly overbetting the pot/shoving/check-raising from villain is a different story here. In that case a fold would probably be the wise choice on the river.