Good spot to fold aces here?

[mattnxtc]

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I'd say KQ/QJ is a pretty darn strong hand and I would c/r the turn with it here. And value bet it.

This is a very bad spot to look to be folding aces.

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O I am in no way saying that b/c he c/r the turn it becomes an easy fold. I was merely saying that using the Baluga theorem, his turn c/r generally would signify that his hand is more likely to be an indication of a strong hand and not a bluff.

Its still an easy call down.

[thepizzlefosho]

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wtf is baluga theorem?

to the post:
Don't fold, theres worse hands in his range hes likely value betting and its probaibly more than 11% of it.

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Its more of a nlhe concept, but the generall theorem states that getting c/r on the turn is a sign of extreme strength from the villain and you should look to dump your more marginal hands.

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I don't think the baluga theorem applies to 6max limit. I c/r the turn with a wide variety of hands include strong made hands, weak made hands, and semi-bluffs all depending on opponents and situations. If you dump a strong but non-nut hand everytime someone (even a loose somewhat passive) c/rs you on the turn you are going to get run over.

to OP: don't fold here.

[mattnxtc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
wtf is baluga theorem?

to the post:
Don't fold, theres worse hands in his range hes likely value betting and its probaibly more than 11% of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its more of a nlhe concept, but the generall theorem states that getting c/r on the turn is a sign of extreme strength from the villain and you should look to dump your more marginal hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the baluga theorem applies to 6max limit. I c/r the turn with a wide variety of hands include strong made hands, weak made hands, and semi-bluffs all depending on opponents and situations. If you dump a strong but non-nut hand everytime someone (even a loose somewhat passive) c/rs you on the turn you are going to get run over.

to OP: don't fold here.

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It wasnt my intention that it makes it a fold if you c/r. I will contend that most people we play against wont realize that they do give some strength away (at least as I have found at the lower limits).

My only question was does it apply somewhat that when we get c/r at 6max lhe that we are generally up against a better hand than if they hit us on the flop?

[thepizzlefosho]

sure a turn c/r often means more strength than a flop c/r, but your theorem is a NL concept for a couple of reasons

1) betting increases exponentially street by street in NL thus a turn c/r is often commitment by a villain to play for stacks. of course folding marginal hands makes sense because the villain is telling you that I have a hand I willing to go all-in with, and I think I am good. It is hard to bluff in that spot because often times you (as the person who got c/r'd) will often have a large portion of your stack in the pot and will feel committed with a decent percentage of your holdings.

2) you state that you should fold marginal hands if c/r'd on the turn. First off AA is not a marginall hand. Second we don't need to play for stacks to see a SD in limit. Just because everyone on tv says don't be a calling station, and they talk about raising and folding in Rounders doesn't mean that calling isn't frequently the right play in limit. Often times you have a good enough hand to SD, but you don't want to put in a ton more action and have to fold what still might be a winner. Plus the bigger the pot gets the more important it is to get to SD since you only have to be good a smaller % of the time to make the SD +EV (obviously this is relative and conditional and should not be taken as set in stone advice). so often times the turn c/r is a sign of great strength, but you still should call down even though you may only be good 15% of the time. getting to a SD in limit is entirely reasonable with marginal hands, getting to SD after a turn c/r in NL is usually going to cost your stack.

I think this is a concept that doesn't really translate.

[thepizzlefosho]

anway the point is that despite that the turn c/r often means more strength than a flop c/r, it doesn't mean so much more strength that you should be frequently folding hands as strong as AA in the OP's situation.

[Wolfram]

As a former nolimidonk (well, I still am but I enjoy lhe more atm) let me define the baluga theorem exactly. Btw, it applies to NL cash games (FR or 6max).

1. You raise preflop, villain calls oop (either limp/calls or cold-calls)
2. Villain checks, you c-bet, villain just calls (this is important).
3. Villain checks, you c-bet, villain check-raises.

Baluga theorem states that in this spot, TPTK or an overpair is no longer any good.

I don't think it applies that well to lhe because most people c/r the turn with a much wider range than 2-pair+. Also, I think this theorem was more foolproof pre-legislation. The games play more aggro these days, and this is more often a semi-bluff w/ a draw or an overplayed TPNK/second pair or even a pure bluff.

[TheHip41]

don't three bet the turn, don't fold the river.

[detruncate]

Easy river call for me.

[globalboy]

Don't be looking to fold aces in HU pots online. Maybe just online in general.

[SuperUberBob]

I called and villain flipped over KTs for the king high flush.

The river basically completed every feasible draw villain could have. I figured that there are a few hands that I beat that are played this way. But I was pretty sure that I was behind and I made a crying call hoping to win the pot.

I was contemplating re-raising the turn, but decided against it and planned to call down. The river kind of made me feel sick, but I couldn't pull myself away given the good pot odds.