Taking a stand with ATs in live 40/80...

[ggbman]

[ QUOTE ]
Call the river, period. There is no postive expectation by getting fancy, since there is a lot of money in the pot already.

You fail, even if you prevailed in this particular hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you fail. DUCY? I like every street, i cap preflop sometimes too.

[HOWMANY]

This hand is extremely standard. I really do not like 4betting preflop against this sort of player. As soon as this guy 3bets preflop OOP I am planning to show it down on safe boards. This flop is about as safe as it gets and makes it about 0% I will fold. As it turns out we made a good hand on the river and raise for value in case he had us beat.

[nineinchal]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call the river, period. There is no postive expectation by getting fancy, since there is a lot of money in the pot already.

You fail, even if you prevailed in this particular hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you fail. DUCY? I like every street, i cap preflop sometimes too.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you fail, see the four Jack example in "The Theory of Poker" by David Sklansky. Test your reading comprehension.

[esspo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call the river, period. There is no postive expectation by getting fancy, since there is a lot of money in the pot already.

You fail, even if you prevailed in this particular hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you fail. DUCY? I like every street, i cap preflop sometimes too.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you fail, see the four Jack example in "The Theory of Poker" by David Sklansky. Test your reading comprehension.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh my. There is definately some failing going on here...

Tricky gambooler type asian males don't like folding. Especially when their opponent's line looks tricky. Villain is folding 0 hands that hero beats, but villian is also folding ~0 hands that he 3-bet with. He's calling with all pairs, lots of aces and if he's running bad or a bit frustrated he's calling with all aces and the occasional K hi.

River is a valuetown raise all day long.

[nineinchal]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call the river, period. There is no postive expectation by getting fancy, since there is a lot of money in the pot already.

You fail, even if you prevailed in this particular hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you fail. DUCY? I like every street, i cap preflop sometimes too.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you fail, see the four Jack example in "The Theory of Poker" by David Sklansky. Test your reading comprehension.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh my. There is definately some failing going on here...

Tricky gambooler type asian males don't like folding. Especially when their opponent's line looks tricky. Villain is folding 0 hands that hero beats, but villian is also folding ~0 hands that he 3-bet with. He's calling with all pairs, lots of aces and if he's running bad or a bit frustrated he's calling with all aces and the occasional K hi.

River is a valuetown raise all day long.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, an idiot like that could have a pair of Jacks, or a Q9 or some worse queen. I call the river all day long, no matter what type of fish.

[ProfessorBen]

I think we should fold a turn K, but otherwise I like the way this hand went.

Taking KT/JT/T9/99/88/77/66/55 to valuetown here seems to be the consensus, but I might add a dissenting opinion that I'm folding to a 3-bet.

Specfically that r/f > call > r/c

[rafiki]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call the river, period. There is no postive expectation by getting fancy, since there is a lot of money in the pot already.

You fail, even if you prevailed in this particular hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you fail. DUCY? I like every street, i cap preflop sometimes too.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you fail, see the four Jack example in "The Theory of Poker" by David Sklansky. Test your reading comprehension.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh my. There is definately some failing going on here...

Tricky gambooler type asian males don't like folding. Especially when their opponent's line looks tricky. Villain is folding 0 hands that hero beats, but villian is also folding ~0 hands that he 3-bet with. He's calling with all pairs, lots of aces and if he's running bad or a bit frustrated he's calling with all aces and the occasional K hi.

River is a valuetown raise all day long.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, an idiot like that could have a pair of Jacks, or a Q9 or some worse queen. I call the river all day long, no matter what type of fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

but there are more combinations of hands we beat then the other way around by the time you get to the river. Raise/fold is fine.

[esspo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call the river, period. There is no postive expectation by getting fancy, since there is a lot of money in the pot already.

You fail, even if you prevailed in this particular hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you fail. DUCY? I like every street, i cap preflop sometimes too.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you fail, see the four Jack example in "The Theory of Poker" by David Sklansky. Test your reading comprehension.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh my. There is definately some failing going on here...

Tricky gambooler type asian males don't like folding. Especially when their opponent's line looks tricky. Villain is folding 0 hands that hero beats, but villian is also folding ~0 hands that he 3-bet with. He's calling with all pairs, lots of aces and if he's running bad or a bit frustrated he's calling with all aces and the occasional K hi.

River is a valuetown raise all day long.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, an idiot like that could have a pair of Jacks, or a Q9 or some worse queen. I call the river all day long, no matter what type of fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

Errr, we aren't raising because he MIGHT have a hand that beats us?

[Garland]

Results: BB called, flashed 99 and I won.

Thoughts:

For people who asked about my plan for a non-river T. I have no idea, I would have folded by now.

Time for me to fess up. I didn’t actually play this hand. It was played by a well-established and successful pro. I’m surprised how this hand came down, but I’m willing to hear other opinions and correct my thinking if necessary. As I play in higher limits, I'm willing to accept different lines of thoughts.

My standard line with AT in this situation is to call the flop and fold the turn. I’m highly against capping as the BB range is virtually always ahead of AT vs this opponent. Even with AJ he’ll will throw in 4 chips to see a flop rather than 3-bet. I only expect to see a better hand when he 3-bets OOP.

My experience with the Korean player in question is in no-limit where I found him to be loose and tricky. Now as I played with in limit throughout that night (and with evidence of this particular hand), I found him to be married to hands, calling 4 bets cold with T9o and clinging on to a small side pot with middle pair and a flush draw for example.

I didn’t see any benefit in continuing to the river. One he might have a hand like TT, JJ, KK that dominates the T. Or he might just have AK/AJ and he might get there when we get there. Shopping for a scare card? Not the type of opponent who folds, so no good there.

Once we get the T on the river, I’m just calling. To me, raising the river was pretty risky because he’s always at least calling with a hand that beats ours, but *should* fold a hand like a pair of 99 or less. It worked out in this case, but I don’t see the long term benefits. Obviously I’m folding to a 3-bet. I suppose in order to get to the river, you have to believe you have 2 live cards and if you do believe that you need to raise the river for value, but I’m not good enough to have that read.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Garland

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
I’m highly against capping as the BB range is virtually always ahead of AT vs this opponent. Even with AJ he’ll will throw in 4 chips to see a flop rather than 3-bet. I only expect to see a better hand when he 3-bets OOP.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
BB – Loose aggressive young Korean gambler.

[/ QUOTE ]

people are responding to this hand based on your initial read which is completely different from the revised read you just posted in the results