Please B&M read this

[bernie]

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Like it or not, it IS a rule for information these days. You can't fight it, so don't let it bother you. You'll affect yourself negatively more than you'll affect anybody else positively.

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If you believe this, do you invoke IWTSTH whenever you are curious about what someone could have called with? I never let it get under my skin, but I do think that people should be heavily discouraged from abusing (i.e. using) this rule, or else it will start happening every hand.

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No it won't. People have been doing it for years without being discouraged and it still doesn't really happen that often, much less happening every hand.

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If you believe this, do you invoke IWTSTH whenever you are curious about what someone could have called with?

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The information most people get when calling this is to see how their hand compared or just general curiousity. They aren't calling this planning on using the information against you. Most wouldn't know how to use it anyways.

b

[yanxchick]

The last time someone asked to see my losing hand, who easn't even in the hand, I looked at him while I was still holding on to my cards though I said fold. Looked at the muck, flung my cards into the muck so that you couldn't tell which were mine and said, "look at them now."

It put the guy on tilt and then lost money to me later on because he wanted to see my hand.

[MicroBob]

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Me: <hits pause on iPod, takes earbuds out> Attention entire table. I understand that the rules allow for this. LET'S. NOT. DO. THAT.

(The last line is EXACTLY what I said.) I don't care if it makes me a nit. A guy does that to me, he gets my warning. He does it to me again, I will see every one of his hands for the remainder of the session. Luckily, I've never had a guy do it a second time after I tell him not to do it.

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I don't know if it necessarily makes you a nit.

But if you actually said "Attention Entire Table" as well as "LETS. NOT. DO. THAT" yet another time then it may make you even more of a dick then the guy who is using a rule who he rightly or wrongly believes he is perfectly entitled to use.

It would also appear that others aren't quite getting the general idea you trying to get across with the phrase "lets not do that" so I'm not sure why you would think that saying it over and over again would somehow make people understand.

[Hair_of_the_Dog]

I don't ask to see cards, but I don't mind when people ask to see mine. I just adjust my game according to the information they just got. I don't change in a drastic way. Say I'm bluffing with AK and they ask to see my cards after they fold to me, I might play 2nd pair the same way against that player the next time it comes up. This is all if I think that the player who asked for the info is actually a thinking player.

I find that when a LAG is on a heater and someone (usually me, not a brag, just when I notice) takes them down for a large pot, someone who wasn't in the hand will ask to see the LAGs hand. I don't mind getting the info so it works for me.

[budblown]

I'll only ask to see someone's hand when they have been raising recklessly 5-6 hands an orbit. I'll make a play and ask to see his hand just to see if he's running hot or if he's trying to bully the table.

[MicroBob]

budblown - you shouldn't do this.

[Hass]

I always ask the player that wanted to see my hand if he thought I was cheating. Usually I get a blank stare or a "no why?" after asking.

I then say something to them explaining that the rule is to keep people from cheating. Most don't understand this for the simple reason that someone has probably done this to them.

I always say it nicely, there is no need to "tap on the glass" in this situation.

I actually saw That_Pope do it the other night, exactally the way I have previously done.

[Hass]

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I'll only ask to see someone's hand when they have been raising recklessly 5-6 hands an orbit. I'll make a play and ask to see his hand just to see if he's running hot or if he's trying to bully the table.

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You understand you are "the guy" this thread is about right?

[goodgrief]

Oh, don't worry. If I invoke IWTSTH it's because I think there is a good chance you are cheating. So if you want to look me in the eye and ask me if I think you might be cheating -- as cheaters actually do, since sociopaths are the boldest of liars -- I am happy to smile and say, "Obviously I think there's a problem."

I caught a couple of confederates at a little known place called Commerce and they yelled, screamed, and threatened to ask to see MY every hand -- and you know what? I'm cool with that, because when I show down MY hands, it's obvious that I'm not cheating. They got caught, they yelled for 15 minutes, their little party was broken up, and they separated. No doubt they were back the next day, since poker rooms have such pathetic game protection, but at least they weren't running their scam at MY table.

There are times when because of the size of the casino I am forced to play at the same table with my friend. In those cases, it can happen that someone invokes IWTSTH if we're in the same pot because they know we are together, and we are both aggressive players. Cool. I'm not offended. Because I'm NOT cheating. I don't enter a hand with my friend unless it's a damn good hand that I'm proud to show down. And I try to make the person comfortable who asked, so they won't feel bad about asking.

Yes, by all means, be a nit if someone persistently or without reason invokes IWTSTH. But if someone invokes it because they're the third party in the middle of a bunch of raises and re-raises, have a little understanding and don't try to make them feel stupid. They are doing their due diligence. It's in our best interests to make people feel comfortable that they're in a fair game.

In your example, where a winner asks to see a losing hand, well, that's just plain tacky and I hope the entire table heaps the appropriate social scorn on the sore winner. But a hotly contested threeway pot, where two of the people may know each other or even have a shared bank -- that's fair game for IWTSTH.

[Hass]

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Oh, don't worry. If I invoke IWTSTH it's because I think there is a good chance you are cheating. So if you want to look me in the eye and ask me if I think you might be cheating -- as cheaters actually do, since sociopaths are the boldest of liars -- I am happy to smile and say, "Obviously I think there's a problem."

I caught a couple of confederates at a little known place called Commerce and they yelled, screamed, and threatened to ask to see MY every hand -- and you know what? I'm cool with that, because when I show down MY hands, it's obvious that I'm not cheating. They got caught, they yelled for 15 minutes, their little party was broken up, and they separated. No doubt they were back the next day, since poker rooms have such pathetic game protection, but at least they weren't running their scam at MY table.

There are times when because of the size of the casino I am forced to play at the same table with my friend. In those cases, it can happen that someone invokes IWTSTH if we're in the same pot because they know we are together, and we are both aggressive players. Cool. I'm not offended. Because I'm NOT cheating. I don't enter a hand with my friend unless it's a damn good hand that I'm proud to show down. And I try to make the person comfortable who asked, so they won't feel bad about asking.

Yes, by all means, be a nit if someone persistently or without reason invokes IWTSTH. But if someone invokes it because they're the third party in the middle of a bunch of raises and re-raises, have a little understanding and don't try to make them feel stupid. They are doing their due diligence. It's in our best interests to make people feel comfortable that they're in a fair game.

In your example, where a winner asks to see a losing hand, well, that's just plain tacky and I hope the entire table heaps the appropriate social scorn on the sore winner. But a hotly contested threeway pot, where two of the people may know each other or even have a shared bank -- that's fair game for IWTSTH.

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I agree. I have actually turned my hand face up my self before the dealer had a chance to much it in a multiway pot when someone asked. My last post about asking if I was cheating was in a heads up situation, sorry I didn't clarify.