JTo otb in straddled hand, 5 limps (coldcallers)

[aK13]

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a straddler typically "defends" his straddle as much as possible (unless his name is Buzz!).

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<--- 32o HU vs. LP 3bet preflop [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Aaron W.]

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I'd insta-call without the straddle, so the question is whether the increased blindsize is good or bad for your hand. Think about it and tell me what you think.

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I view JTo as a mediocre implied odds hand and a medium strength pair hand. The reason is that JTo is only a one way drawing hand that will find itself subject to a flush redraw pretty often, but flopping a pair is sometimes good against a loose field (which you have here).

So because this isn't an implied odds hand, the increased blind size preflop is not a problem. I'll limp it.

Regarding the discussion of the straddler and other players in the hand: Yes, if the straddler adds the chance that the postflop game will be nuts, then your implied odds could go up. But JTo isn't the sort of hand you want in that type of heavy action. I'd take 75s or T7s over JTo in that spot. (Even in a game with that potential action, I'll still limp, but I'm aware that I might have a couple tough decisions postflop with a hand like a gutshot on a flush draw board for two bets in a huge pot.

[shuinthehouse]

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I'd insta-call without the straddle, so the question is whether the increased blindsize is good or bad for your hand. Think about it and tell me what you think.

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Aaron - as stated in OP, for me EZ limp with 6 limpers, EZ fold to UTG raise and 5 cold-callers. But raise and 5 cold-callers indicates strength in UTG hand and generally greater than normal strength for most of the cold-callers. My thought with the straddle is most of these guys will have lower calling standards than they would against an UTG raise, and probably even lower than they would limp with in a standard pot, b/c the straddle is probably going to lead to a bigger pot so let's all gamboool. So I thought this fact offset the reduction in implied odds I'd get if all limped, meaning I'm getting say 12-2 instead of 6-1. But I was not sure immediately afterward and overnight if my thinking was right. I'm getting great input here and in SSHE. I think if you add up all the feedback it comes out really close. Not everyone paid attention to the later question about how if I had thought about it I would have realized it was 90% likely BB would 3-bet, in which case straddler or someone would cap it just because. From the few who did comment on this, it seems that calling was -EV, although not greatly so.

[jeanbaptiste36]

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The straddle hurts your implied odds and JTo is not much of a toppair hand, so I say a fold.
Your hand is not much better than theirs but they are cutting your odds in half which is important when you have to draw to something with JTo. I have no math backup my claim but JTo is marginal in this spot without cold-calling to begin with, isn't it?

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How does the straddle hurt him implied odds? I know what you are thinking, but it is basically wrong. A straddled hand is any two cards (I know you are going to argue about the strength of his hand), but a straddler typically "defends" his straddle as much as possible (unless his name is Buzz!). This means that several times it will be 3bet/capped by the straddler if not done before it gets back to him. if 3bet/capped by BTN, SB, or BB, your implieds are still huge (normal scenario for large implied odds). If 3bet/capped by the straddler, your implieds are still huge however because...

1. Straddler will lead almost any flop since straddler = moron in most cases.
2. Others will be playing the straddler for what he is... again, a moron
3. Everyone else in the pot will either be calling down w/ all kinds of pairs.. TPWK, 2PGK, etc OR trying to push others out of the pot w/ random top pair type hands.
4. Reason 3 keeps implied odds large because people will become less willing to fold for 1-2 bets (rightfully so in this case) because the pot will be so large.

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OK, I stand corrected. Serves me just right to try to come with some meaningful comments on live play when I never have set fot inside a casino before.

[Aaron W.]

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Not everyone paid attention to the later question about how if I had thought about it I would have realized it was 90% likely BB would 3-bet, in which case straddler or someone would cap it just because. From the few who did comment on this, it seems that calling was -EV, although not greatly so.

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In this case, you're looking at a situation where you have even more bets going into the pot without any significant increase in hand strength, so you're looking at decreased implied odds with the exact same immediate odds. I'd go ahead and gamble for the big pot.