Short Stack Strategy

[knockonwood]

I know everyone hates the short stacks, but would someone mind outlining a decent short stack strategy so i can get my feet wet at NL?

[Josh.]

get the book "getting started in hold'em" and i think the sklansky/miller nl book has a pretty decent short stack section

i wouldn't recommend short stacking though. it seems like an easy way to make an easy profit, but it's ridiculously swingy, and not really that fun or challenging. most short stackers don't make much, if anything. the ones who do make money are very good at it and many have done complex calculations and simulations.

[phydaux]

Friends don't let friends drive drunk or play the Short Stack Strategy.

SSS is just like Josh said - Swingy, boring, not real poker. It's also +EV and nearly unexploitable. True, Short Stackers don't make much money. Per table. But because it requires so few decisions, and in fact not even very much thought at all, then it's really easy to multitable. So you see a lot of short stacker playing 16 tables with chat turned off. They make a small but consistent income, and because they're playing 600 hands an hour that helps to level the swings.

And that's what leads to all the newbies saying on-line poker is rigged and all the tables are full of bots.

I could short stack if I wanted to, but that sounds too much like a job to me, and I've already got one of those. I'd much rather just buy in full on four tables and play poker. You know, 'cause poker is a game and suppose to be fun and all.

[bravos1]

[ QUOTE ]
Friends don't let friends drive drunk or play the Short Stack Strategy.

SSS is just like Josh said - Swingy, boring, not real poker. It's also +EV and nearly unexploitable. True, Short Stackers don't make much money. Per table. But because it requires so few decisions, and in fact not even very much thought at all, then it's really easy to multitable. So you see a lot of short stacker playing 16 tables with chat turned off. They make a small but consistent income, and because they're playing 600 hands an hour that helps to level the swings.

And that's what leads to all the newbies saying on-line poker is rigged and all the tables are full of bots.

I could short stack if I wanted to, but that sounds too much like a job to me, and I've already got one of those. I'd much rather just buy in full on four tables and play poker. You know, 'cause poker is a game and suppose to be fun and all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd love to have Curtains chime in here. I know many people on these forums despise him for how he plays short all the time. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I think it would be very interesting to here directly from a short-stacker in regards to his thinking and plan of attack.

[phydaux]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd love to have Curtains chime in here. I know many people on these forums despise him for how he plays short all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not that anyone despises him. It's that, like I said, it's really hard for a deep stack player to exploit a short stacker who plays properly. That, and most short stackers tend to "hit-n-run."

Two limpers and I raise from the button with SCs. A short stacker in the SB shoves. The limpers fold and, because I don't have odds to call, so do I.

Repeat this five times. Now I'm pissed.

The short stacker types "Meep! Meep! Roadrunner!" in the chat window and logs off the table. I throw my cordless mouse against the wall and yell at my cat. My cat ignores me. Now I want to die.

I hate my cat.

[bravos1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd love to have Curtains chime in here. I know many people on these forums despise him for how he plays short all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not that anyone despises him.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I have several people call out Curtains both here and in others forums, but I think you are correct for the most part.
[ QUOTE ]
It's that, like I said, it's really hard for a deep stack player to exploit a short stacker who plays properly. That, and most short stackers tend to "hit-n-run."

[/ QUOTE ]
While frustrating, them doing so seems perfectly logical no?
[ QUOTE ]

Two limpers and I raise from the button with SCs. A short stacker in the SB shoves. The limpers fold and, because I don't have odds to call, so do I.

Repeat this five times. Now I'm pissed.

The short stacker types "Meep! Meep! Roadrunner!" in the chat window and logs off the table. I throw my cordless mouse against the wall and yell at my cat. My cat ignores me. Now I want to die.

I hate my cat.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] yeah we all hate your cat!

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd love to have Curtains chime in here. I know many people on these forums despise him for how he plays short all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not that anyone despises him. It's that, like I said, it's really hard for a deep stack player to exploit a short stacker who plays properly. That, and most short stackers tend to "hit-n-run."

Two limpers and I raise from the button with SCs. A short stacker in the SB shoves. The limpers fold and, because I don't have odds to call, so do I.

Repeat this five times. Now I'm pissed.

The short stacker types "Meep! Meep! Roadrunner!" in the chat window and logs off the table. I throw my cordless mouse against the wall and yell at my cat. My cat ignores me. Now I want to die.

I hate my cat.

[/ QUOTE ]

How short was he? I'll call 15 bbs off with 87s here. If I win shortie is gone. If I lose shortie usually leaves. Either way, my image in the eyes of my real targets is that I suck.

[bravos1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd love to have Curtains chime in here. I know many people on these forums despise him for how he plays short all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not that anyone despises him. It's that, like I said, it's really hard for a deep stack player to exploit a short stacker who plays properly. That, and most short stackers tend to "hit-n-run."

Two limpers and I raise from the button with SCs. A short stacker in the SB shoves. The limpers fold and, because I don't have odds to call, so do I.

Repeat this five times. Now I'm pissed.

The short stacker types "Meep! Meep! Roadrunner!" in the chat window and logs off the table. I throw my cordless mouse against the wall and yell at my cat. My cat ignores me. Now I want to die.

I hate my cat.

[/ QUOTE ]

How short was he? I'll call 15 bbs off with 87s here. If I win shortie is gone. If I lose shortie usually leaves. Either way, my image in the eyes of my real targets is that I suck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you think that shorty will leave and not just reload short? rinse.. repeat is pretty standard for a short-stacker.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you think that shorty will leave and not just reload short? rinse.. repeat is pretty standard for a short-stacker.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the 5% that are decent yes, but most just go to another table, especially after they have to showdown a hand like A5 or KQ.

[Dogballs88]

I play short sometimes - I've tried a few different "systems" for shortstacking - Ed Miller's stragety in GSIH is probably one of the easiest to learn and it does work/another stragety I've used is to buy in a bit "deeper" say 40-50 BB and play some semblance of a normal game but focus only on the high percentage cards - I've tried both as high as $400 NL and they are indeed winners - albeit small. Over about 50K hands playing short over the last six months, they've earned me about 1.5PTBB/100 - pretty much even across all limits (if anything, they do a bit worse at the weak-tight games like $50 NL as people just aren't entering the pot as much, period).

Like most people do, I get frustrated when I'm playing full and there's nothing but a bunch of shortstacked donks and the only ones who are deep are the TAG's and 2+2'ers. But keep reading.

As far as exploiting shortstackers goes, someone who uses a cookie cutter stragety like Ed Miller's of course is open to explotation by good players. The question is, however...is it more +EV for the good players to exploit the short stack, or tailor their game to play well vs. the other deep money? I think in many cases it's more +EV to play more badly vs. the short money, giving yourself an edge vs. the deep stacks. I'm not sure many people that bitch about the short stacks realize this. I'd go so far as to say some otherwise good players throw EV out the window just to try and bust the shortstack so he'll leave, which of course is no gurantaee.

From my experience from playing short, players that could easily dominiate me if we were playing full sometimes go out of their way to hand me money when I'm short, just because I'm short. That's one way they (shortstackers) make money. The other is just like the rest of us do: from bona fide donkeys.