Stud 8b - jamming aces up on 6th

donger · #1 08-10-2007, 12:00 AM

This is vs an unknown in the FTOPS horse tournament tonight.

2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] brings it in

3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] folds

I raise with (A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img])9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] folds

2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] folds

6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] folds

J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] calls

8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] folds

We're HU and he calls down until 6th, where he raises.

the boards look like this:

me: (A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img])9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

him: (XX)J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

My question.. is this an easy threebet?

ChipsAhoya · #2 08-10-2007, 12:08 AM

That's a fascinating raise because it looks like you have 999. I would 3-bet and fold to a cap which I would think is coming more often than you would expect.

-ChipsAhoya

Alchemist · #3 08-10-2007, 12:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
That's a fascinating raise because it looks like you have 999. I would 3-bet and fold to a cap which I would think is coming more often than you would expect.

-ChipsAhoya

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I like a line that involves not seeing a showdown or at least the river card. I think we're most likely up against a set of Kings, but I don't fully understand going with a RR-fold. Is just calling him down that bad?

PokerJans · #4 08-10-2007, 12:32 AM

Against tournament players I would actually call and check raise the river. Because...

If we raise here we will only be called down by smaller two pair and three bet by JJJ KKK 555 666. Since we cant fold to tourny donks(yes they really are that terrible at this game) check raising the river will put in the same amount of bets when we are ahead and we are much less likely to be three bet on the river because people suck at value betting/raising rivers and will fear a monster unless they themselves have a serious hidden monster of a hand.

Also if you are new to the table or whatever limping 3rd would be great. People would think 'omgz he just limped with a 9 lemmie iso him with something stupid' and then you can lay down the hammer.

betgo · #5 08-10-2007, 12:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
That's a fascinating raise because it looks like you have 999. I would 3-bet and fold to a cap which I would think is coming more often than you would expect.

-ChipsAhoya

[/ QUOTE ]
How does it look like 999? Is OP completing on 3rd with split 9s in stud 8?

donger · #6 08-10-2007, 12:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's a fascinating raise because it looks like you have 999. I would 3-bet and fold to a cap which I would think is coming more often than you would expect.

-ChipsAhoya

[/ QUOTE ]
How does it look like 999? Is OP completing on 3rd with split 9s in stud 8?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's probably not that out of the ordinary in tournaments. These people are terrible. Thats why I'm wondering if this guy is just like "ZOMG two pair!! RZITUP!!!" without actually even wondering about my hand.

Rush17 · #7 08-10-2007, 12:39 AM

Nothing about this hand should make this an easy 3 bet for you.

When a player raises in stud8 and then pairs their doorcard...I would be more inclined to give them trips IF the doorcard was over an 8, because, most of the hands that tend to get raised on 3rd street are the low draw hands (with doorcards Ace-8). So when someone raises with a 9-K, usually they have a split pair or a high pocket pair. Although, because 9's are still a bad pair, when someone raises with a 9 door, I'm more inclined to give them a higher pair in the hole. (unless, of course, they play poorly, then it's all a guess, but I'm speaking in general.)

So with that said, and let's assume that your HU opponent has a clue: he can see that you paired your doorcard yet he's still raising you. Well, we know that he's not raising with a low so that must mean a high hand.

If I were playing you, my read on you would most likely be Aces up or trip 9's. So, for me to raise you in that spot, I would need trips because any two pair hand with that board wouldn't be good enough to beat you. I doubt he called your initial raise with pocket 66,55 (although anything is possible)so I'm reading him for either rolled up jacks or trip kings.

I don't see any point in 3-betting him on 6th. I definitely don't understand or agree to a reraise and a fold to a cap. For the same amount of bets (calling his 1st raise and calling the river unimproved)you have the chance, at least, to not only show down your hand (which might be good), but, for the same price, you get to see a river with the chance to fill up. And, if he does have you beat, it will cost you extra bets, perhaps the maximum (and there's no reason for the spewage at this point), and, if he's actually trailing you but is feeling frisky, well let him dust off his chips that way by being the aggressor.

If he plays really bad, you will find a much better spot to exploit it.

ChipsAhoya · #8 08-10-2007, 12:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's a fascinating raise because it looks like you have 999. I would 3-bet and fold to a cap which I would think is coming more often than you would expect.

-ChipsAhoya

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I like a line that involves not seeing a showdown or at least the river card. I think we're most likely up against a set of Kings, but I don't fully understand going with a RR-fold. Is just calling him down that bad?

[/ QUOTE ]

Against a set of Kings (or JJJ) we have three outs if he doesn't fill, so basically 2 outs, so I don't mind finding out now if we can fold while getting the maximum vs. kings up.

-ChipsAhoya

PokerJans · #9 08-10-2007, 12:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's a fascinating raise because it looks like you have 999. I would 3-bet and fold to a cap which I would think is coming more often than you would expect.

-ChipsAhoya

[/ QUOTE ]
How does it look like 999? Is OP completing on 3rd with split 9s in stud 8?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's probably not that out of the ordinary in tournaments. These people are terrible. Thats why I'm wondering if this guy is just like "ZOMG two pair!! RZITUP!!!" without actually even wondering about my hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo!

RubbishCards · #10 08-10-2007, 12:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Against a set of Kings (or JJJ) we have three outs if he doesn't fill, so basically 2 outs, so I don't mind finding out now if we can fold while getting the maximum vs. kings up.

-ChipsAhoya

[/ QUOTE ]But you aren't necessarily finding out anything if he caps, the players in a HORSE tournament will be awful enough, but in a special tournament series like FTOPS they are going to be sub- play money standard, no matter what he does IMO you absolutely must not fold here.