#11
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Re: Ace on the turn
Yea, the replies are unanimous b/f.
This is exactly the kind of leak I'm working on, and why my W2SD% doesen't drop below 36%: I get married to big pairs and TPTK. I was raised by UTG+1 and made a crying call, we got it HU where I luckboxed a 3rd K. But most of the time you dont hit your two-outer (duh!). |
#12
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Re: Ace on the turn
Super Grunch
Preflop: We have the second best hand, we raise for value. Flop: We still have top pair and I bet for value again and if raised I would call and re-evaluate on the turn. Turn: I would bet since no one has shown us a better hand. If raised I would call and check/call the river. |
#13
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Re: Ace on the turn
SUPER GRUNCH
PF: Raising KK PF -- awesome!!! For this to be a true super grunch do I have to say why? Very strong hand, blah blah blah. Flop: Bet is good. That flop was very unlikely to have hit anyone. Continue to get value for your hand. Turn: I think an A is relatively likely in your opponents hands: An A-high FD is a good candidate, A7 of course, and something like AJo who couldn't find a fold on the flop. There's also the slow-played 3. My strategy here is the same, though -- bet out, and be prepared to fold, especially if there are still two active villains at the time of the raise. River: If you're not raised on turn, be prepared to bet a safe river. I'd probably c/c a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. The above are read dependent and I'd b/f them more often with LPP opponents. |
#14
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Re: Ace on the turn
Why do you include only A7 and NFDs in their ranges and not worse 7s and PPs? Why does KQo fold the flop when AJo can't? Why would you c/c a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on the river?
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#15
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Re: Ace on the turn
[ QUOTE ]
Yea, the replies are unanimous b/f [/ QUOTE ] nahnotrly. I don't think this is a question of whether to bet or check the turn, it's what to do after you bet. If you bet, UTG raises and it comes back to you HU, getting 10:1, you have to be pretty sure this guy can't be bluffing/semi-bluffing. Even if he bets the river (which he won't always do) you are getting odds that mean you have to be ~85% sure you are beat to fold. If UTG calls and CO raises, you can probably fold. If UTG raises and CO cold-calls you can definatly fold. Strangly enough, since moving to 6-max, I have been trying to increase my WTSD (as opposed to OP lowering his), so perhaps I'm calling too often here? |
#16
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Re: Ace on the turn
[ QUOTE ]
Why do you include only A7 and NFDs in their ranges and not worse 7s and PPs? Why does KQo fold the flop when AJo can't? Why would you c/c a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on the river? [/ QUOTE ] Damn getting a gold star is hard. On the turn hand range I probably wasn't clear -- I was trying to convince myself what I would do if raised on the turn. I don't mean to imply villain's range is limited to the hands I listed, just that if raised on the turn it is very believable that they have a hand that beats us. i.e. there are many examples of legitimate hands that call the flop and then raise the turn. Regarding KQo -- I dunno, since Ax holds up UI more than Kx, I figure villains are more likely to call down with it? I c/c the heart on the river as a FD, a pp and the 7 are the only good reasons left for two villains to be calling down that we beat. If the FD goes away, I think our chances of winning are way down and since I don't know how I would react to a raise I'm more inclined to c/c. I also would like to see what the action is before I act. BTW -- this plan changes if I have a good read on the villains. If they are loose passive I would value bet here as they will often have a worse holding. |
#17
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Re: Ace on the turn
[ QUOTE ]
If you bet, UTG raises and it comes back to you HU, getting 10:1, you have to be pretty sure this guy can't be bluffing/semi-bluffing. Even if he bets the river (which he won't always do) you are getting odds that mean you have to be ~85% sure you are beat to fold. [/ QUOTE ] I think if UTG raises, he's expecting at least one of you to call; ergo he is likely not bluffing, you are toast. |
#18
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Re: Ace on the turn
The questions you need to ask yourself on a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] river are, "How often do I expect my opponent to bet w/o a frush?" "How often do I expect him to raise my river bet w/o a frush?" and "How often do I expect him to call my river bet w/o a frush?"
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#19
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Re: Ace on the turn
This is where it gets pretty read dependent. An LP is likely to call a non-frush (plus non-A, non-3) hand but is unlikely to bet it on the river. A LAG is much more willing to a) bluff raise and b) bet his a non-flush if checked to. A tight player would not have made it this far without a decent hand.
So I guess I bet into the LP and check to the TP, TAG and LAG. |
#20
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Re: Ace on the turn
And what do you do after you check, if you check. Please explain your answer.
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