Saving Ones Citizens From The Tyranny Of.....BOTTLED WATER!!! (NSFW)

[Kaj]

This whole thread is a derailment.

Nowhere in the article nor in the SF policy does it prohibit citizens from doing anything privately regarding bottled water.

The issue is that the city is already using tax dollars to provide drinking water and uses tax dollars to dispose of trash at city facilities. The city has every right to have a policy prohibiting the use of TAX DOLLARS (remember that was the issue) on bottled water. If city employees prefer bottled water, they may go ahead and purchase it on their own. This is simply the city using it's funds to be a little greener in its operations. Do you also object to certain military policy mandating the use of electric vehicles for some roles on its installations?

Talk about a hyperreaction to a non-issue. SF and other cities should be commended for better stewardship of the people's tax dollars.

[VarlosZ]

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How about a system where people have to take full responsibility for the true economic costs of their decisions?

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Maybe that would be better. However, that is emphatically not the system in which we're living, and it's probably for the best that our representatives in government not make decisions that would only make sense in a hypothetical, counterfactual universe.

[tomdemaine]

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How about a system where people have to take full responsibility for the true economic costs of their decisions?

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Maybe that would be better. However, that is emphatically not the system in which we're living, and it's probably for the best that our representatives in government not make decisions that would only make sense in a hypothetical, counterfactual universe.

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But you can't bring it about by mandating this that or the other. Saying people should be responsible for the harm they cause (to the planet or whatever) and then supporting a government intervention is extremely counterproductive. It may work in this on particular incident (though it probably wont even do that) but it allows the government to grow and sets the precedent for lots and lots of other interventions much much more harmful to your interests. You can't fight it, you can't tame it and you can't save it. Just say no!

[Leaky Eye]

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San Fran mayor already bans use of public funds to buy bottled water (coke and pepsi ok though).

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This is a terrible example for whatever point you are trying to make. SF mayor doesn't use city funds to buy bottled water because he thinks its a waste of money. It is his budget and he can do that.

Everyone else in San Francisco is free to spend their money on whatever type of water they want.

[Leaky Eye]

Good lord this whole thread is just anti-government hysteria. I don't like government interference in people's lives any more than the rest of you, but nobody is being prevented from drinking bottled water. WTF.

[lehighguy]

So if we had universal health covergage, you would advocate having the government tell you if you could eat the pizza?

It seems your logic is pretty applicable to all bottled soft drinks. To say tap water is an identical alternative is sheer idiocy. People wouldn't pay billions of dollars a year if they didn't prefer bottled water for taste, convienence, or any other factors that cause them to currently prefer bottled water.

[lehighguy]

Do you really think people aren't informed about bottled water? Is this really such a complicated product people can't figure this one out without a government ad campaign. I mean jesus christ.

Maybe, just maybe, there are various [censored] reasons that people want the product. Maybe people who spend money on bottled water prefer it for some reason.

[lehighguy]

My last job was at Hertz. Most employees at our corporate office rented from Enterprise.

My friend works at UPS. They actually use DHL for a lot of thier shipping.

People choose the products that best fit thier needs. When a city construction worker is working on some bridge you be sure to tell him to climb down and find a tap to fill up at because dragging a bottle up there will destroy us all.

I never thought they could band smoking in NYC, but they did. Believe me this is just a first step. Once they pass universal health care the state will have an interest in controlling what people eat, drink, and do because it can effect government expenses.

[lehighguy]

I've filled up old water bottles from the tap before, it is never the same. Plus I have to carry the damn thing around all day instead of just buying it where I want, using it, and then throwing it away when I'm done. Also, it always tastes "used". In addition, usually when I get a bottle from a vending machine it is ice cold, which I happen to enjoy.

Really, I shouldn't have to debate the many reasons why someone would prefer a product, it really isn't someones job to justify thier preferences to the government.

[VarlosZ]

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How about a system where people have to take full responsibility for the true economic costs of their decisions?

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Maybe that would be better. However, that is emphatically not the system in which we're living, and it's probably for the best that our representatives in government not make decisions that would only make sense in a hypothetical, counterfactual universe.

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But you can't bring it about by mandating this that or the other.

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Fair enough but, in the mean time, people who don't necessarily feel as you do about the government are going to use it to address problems when it seems feasible.

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Saying people should be responsible for the harm they cause (to the planet or whatever) and then supporting a government intervention is extremely counterproductive.

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I disagree. Government intervention can be how we deal with problems like this. The state isn't necessarily to be conceived as some outside entity opposed to individual freedom. It can be simply our mechanism for taking collective action. Sometimes using it in that way is how we take responsibilty for our actions.