I was told this would make a good playalong

[BigBadBabar]

i lean toward a turn call actually

[BigBadBabar]

and my first instinct was actually to raise

[Montrealcorp]

yup,i would raise too on tun for free showdonw if im raised i fold..

[MrWookie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
However, the paired board makes this moot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was actually waiting to see if wook was the first one to pick up on this or if he really did glance over it, since he didn't mention it in his post to Kerowo.

I was all set for an "ummm, paired board?" from wookie in regards to my post.

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew it was a paired board. I wasn't sure if Ker's mistake was that he thought we had a flush draw or if he thought there could be a flush draw with our 8. I guessed the former, but I guess that was wrong.

[Guitierez]

I don't see what justifies calling here. We're getting 8.5:1 and we're not even having 4 outs to improve if we're behind (most likely, with the K in the range of a preflop 3-bettor and a capper). A 3 would make any K or an overpair to our 8s a better FH.

And there's still SB "a better player" to act behind, who could also be a tricky player waiting to c/r. Only because BB is an "idiot", is not enough reason to call, it'd be a reason to raise, could we trust our read.

[aK13]

[ QUOTE ]
yup,i would raise too on tun for free showdonw if im raised i fold..

[/ QUOTE ]

What is your reasoning behind a free showdown raise? (open question to everyone)

[Guitierez]

we give villain a chance to fold.

the check-to-the-raiza-mentality allows a free (2BB) showdown,
the same we had paid calling turn and river.

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yup,i would raise too on tun for free showdonw if im raised i fold..

[/ QUOTE ]

What is your reasoning behind a free showdown raise? (open question to everyone)

[/ QUOTE ]

The only reason I see is to make SB fold something like A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] if he's capable of doing that. BB is almost never folding here methinks.

[Oink]

The donk by BB looks scary but its highly likely that he is semibluffing the scarecard.

In the event that both SB and BB has overcards they are sharing outs a lot so raising to knock out SB will not do that much good. Say they have AJ and AQ respectibely. Raising only gives Hero another 3 rivers that will win him the pot.

I would call and fold if SB raises.

[Nfinity]

The donk on the Turn really didn't fit. BB's reluctance to continuation bet makes 99-AA less likely. His donk bet makes a hand like a slowplayed AA-KK or AK unlikely as well. Though his checkraise stat has sample size issues, he didn't really strike me as the sort to forgo a checkraise for fear that I might check it through, and I have given no indication of weakness throughout the hand to make him think this was possible.

The true scariness of the Turn donk doesn't come from the BB himself but from the SB left to act. The K fits his Flop Check-Calling range perfectly, and he is the opponent most capable of making this play.

Raising is out of the question. We are not even sure we have the bettor beat, and we are never really gaining anything when an opponent folds. As somebody stated, if we are ahead my 2 opponents are sharing outs, and the benefit of winning against 3 more cards on the river do not outweigh the cost of having put in 2 bets on this Turn, only to fold to a 3-bet from either opponent.

I chose to Call/Fold and make a decision on the River. If I saw the River 3-handed I was most likely giving up to a bet unimproved.


Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7.5BB, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, SB folds.

River: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (9.5BB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero???