100NL AQ turned TPGK

[rakes.a.beach]

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $102.85
UTG+1: $181.90
CO: $118.70
Button: $215.60
SB: $109.70
Hero: $200

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $4</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $16</font>, CO calls.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($32.5, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $23</font>, CO calls.

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($78.5, 2 players)
Hero ???

Villian just sat down. seems taggish with no other read.

[kindju]

First of all I don't think reraising with AQ in the BB is such a good idea if you're not sure that villain will call your reraise with a wide range that comprises smaller Ax and underpairs. If not you've basically turned a good hand into a bluff. If the original raiser has a tight calling range for 3-bet I'd rather reraise him with weaker hands (sc, smaller pairs) that I can't just call with.
Now that he has called you, you will have to play a big pot OOP with a potentially dominated hand...

As played, C-betting the flop is fine, if you think his range is fairly wide but reads are critical imo for that kind of play.
When he calls the flop bet, crai on the turn seems the best play but you've put yourself in a tough spot.

[rberg]

pf reraise is good imo.
if you just call, you end up folding most flops with the best hand.
i c/c or c/f depending on much he bets on the turn (the line being maybe around half pot), but i actually expect him to check behind a good percentage of the time.

[$upermad4it]

Preflop is good, I check call turn

[Tickner]

I like it as played, and now on the turn I like to check it and hope he bets. Reasoning is that I dont think he will call a 2nd barell on a scarey turn with a worse hand but will take stabs at it with more. Moreover when we check the turn we look weaker if he checks behind and we bet the river.

[kindju]

Everybody seems to think preflop is good. Could someone explain why? I usually 3-bet AQ in that spot but I am starting to reevaluate that play.
I feel that in order for a 3bet to be more ev than a call villain calling range has to be somewhat large. If not he will call with a better hand and you will play a big pot OOP. That can't be good right?
Plus, 3-betting makes him fold his dominated Ax which is not good for us.

[rberg]

[ QUOTE ]
Everybody seems to think preflop is good. Could someone explain why? I usually 3-bet AQ in that spot but I am starting to reevaluate that play.
I feel that in order for a 3bet to be more ev than a call villain calling range has to be somewhat large. If not he will call with a better hand and you will play a big pot OOP. That can't be good right?
Plus, 3-betting makes him fold his dominated Ax which is not good for us.

[/ QUOTE ]

i believe there is more value in taking it down pf + taking it down with a c-bet + winning a pot just cause you have best hand compared to getting value only those times you hit and are good.
But i'd love to hear the opinion of better players on this!

[kindju]

I agree with taking it down pf + taking it down with a c-bet but I think that winning a pot at showdown with that hand will not happen very often in this spot? So you've turned AQ into a bluff no? I am also really interested to hear more about this!

[ftavatar]

against loose openers its a value bet. you beat most of his range so push your edge and you take the initiative away from him so you can win a pot when u miss.
against tight players its the same from the cutoff, ur usually ahead of the range here as well, and you can define your hand so you dont get in to trouble later in the hand. if they are super tight and you arn't prepared to raise then you should fold the hand as you are probably behind to their range.
generally from just calling your going to be oop with no initiative, and unless you flop something its going to be hard to show it down against semi decent player, as they will take you off it.
if the sole reason for you calling here is to try and take a big pot of a dominated ace (a-10 etc), you are giving up so much value from letting people see a flop with a worse hand, not getting money in ahead,not defining your hand just to try and win a pot which most people wont get too carried away with anyway (how many people stack off with top pair no kicker? if they are that type of player then they'll put more money in pre with poor hands so you get more out of them in the long run when they dont hit at all by 3 betting here).
finally if you're not 3 betting here then you almost have to flat call ootb with big hands as if you only three bet aces and kings etc you will be giving to greater implied odds to players as your range would be so small (good chapter on this in sklansky nlhe theory and practice).
sure there are other reasons as well which better players can add! [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

just re read your first post so forget the bit about the weaker ace thing.
i dont think of it as a bluff really, it is more about value.

[ftavatar]

oh check call turn as well. someone mentioned crai on the turn but not really sure what part of his range that you are ahead of calls apart from a flush draw although imo if a player wont try and take the pot on the flop with a semibluff, they are usually taking a free card on the turn with a fd so ur usually only looking at the made hand end of the range.