Top Two in a big pot

Mr. Orange · #1 04-13-2007, 05:45 PM

UTG+2 is kinda tilty. His stack has been fluctuating. Everytime he gets under 8-9BB (like in this hand) he goes crazy. About an orbit earlier he capped from EP with JTo after I 3bet with AK.

MP3 is very solid. Hasn't been out of line at all. Taggish.

PF and flop seem ok. Turn is where my big question is. After MP3 calls 2 cold on the flop (twice) I was a little worried about what he had. I was never really concerned with UTG2. I could have raised to try to blow MP3 out of the pot but was concerned with getting 3 bet. If I just called I figured he'd raise with position if he had anything that beat me. Also the pot was so big that he could probably chase profitably even calling 2 cold if he was on a draw.
Given the turn, the river seems good, right??

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP3 3-bets, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG+2 caps, Hero calls, MP3 calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16.33 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls, BB calls, UTG+2 3-bets, Hero caps, MP3 calls, BB folds, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (15.16 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+2 bets, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

River: (18.16 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, MP3 folds, UTG+2 3-bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 22.83 BB

BigBadBabar · #2 04-13-2007, 06:12 PM

i don't see how the river changes anything; if we weren't going to raise the turn why raise the river? i mean i agree the draw didn't come in but i think i'd still put the raise in on the turn to charge mp3 more since he seems obviously drawing. if 3bet i just call down.

gobbledygeek · #3 04-13-2007, 06:13 PM

I raise turn. Even though I'm a little worried about a solid player 3betting preflop and then coldcalling twice on the flop I can't necessarily think he has AA or KK; there are lots of A broadway diamond/spade hands that he could have right now. Even though he has odds to coldcall on flush draw I think you have to make him pay for that, don't you?

Gclueless2centsG

gobbledygeek · #4 04-13-2007, 06:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i don't see how the river changes anything; if we weren't going to raise the turn why raise the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Cuz MP3 didn't raise on turn, which tells us that we're not behind to AA/KK?

RudeboyOi · #5 04-13-2007, 06:23 PM

from your description of UTG + 2
raise turn
cap if 3bet
call river if donked into
bet/call if checked to

Mr. Orange · #6 04-13-2007, 06:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i don't see how the river changes anything; if we weren't going to raise the turn why raise the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Cuz MP3 didn't raise on turn, which tells us that we're not behind to AA/KK?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I was thinking.

Mr. Orange · #7 04-13-2007, 06:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
from your description of UTG + 2
raise turn
cap if 3bet
call river if donked into
bet/call if checked to

[/ QUOTE ]

You realize there's another player in the hand right?

ChuckyB · #8 04-13-2007, 07:03 PM

MP3's line on the flop (call 2 cold, then call 2 more) is the typical "I have a flush draw line". If I thought I was tied or ahead on the turn I'd raise there. You won't get a dime from him on the river and he needs to pay the max to draw out.

If your read on UTG+2 is good and you believe you're ahead, then you're fine. However if you think he's tilty, why didn't you maximize by raising the turn?

Given the turn you played, the river is fine.

Bob T. · #9 04-13-2007, 08:05 PM

I would have raised one more time after the flop, and my choice would have been on the turn to put more pressure on MP3.

Bob T. · #10 04-13-2007, 08:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You realize there's another player in the hand right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, and that is why you raise the turn, instead of the river.