PL 5CD MTT: Getting the most value from a good pat hand

[THEjDonk]

This is another hand from my first PL 5CD tournament. When everyone folded, I realized that I might have lost a lot of value by potting predraw:

Tournament: Pot Limit 5 Card Draw (10/20) (converter)

Hero (1690), Seat 3
BB (1600), Seat 4
UTG (1500), Seat 5
MP (1600), Seat 6
CO (1370), Seat 1
Button (1220), Seat 2

Hero posts 10. BB posts 20.

Hero is SB with [Jc Jh Ts Tc Th]

Round 1: (30)

<font color="green">UTG calls. </font><font color="red">MP raises 40 to 60. </font><font color="#666666">CO folds. </font><font color="green">Button calls. </font><font color="red">Hero raises 180 to 240. </font><font color="#666666">BB folds. </font><font color="#666666">UTG folds. </font><font color="#666666">MP folds. </font><font color="#666666">Button folds. </font>

Pot: (220)

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What do you think is the best way to play this hand? I suppose that it would be nice if someone else made a pat hand, so maybe I should try to give draws, two pairs and some other weak hands better pot odds to call. There is a risk that someone might make a bigger full house, but I think it's worth to risk a little to try to win a big pot.

What do you think I should do? Do you prefer:

1)Call
2)Raise another 60/90/120
3)Just make a pot-sized raise

I'll add a poll for the sake of it, but I'll rather have some discussion than just results from a poll.

[DOMIT]

with the blinds so low, I'd smooth call and hope for overcalls drawing dead (flush/str draws). Yes you have the possibility of being outdrawn, but his most likely hand is 2pair and it's about 11-1 to be outdrawn. In tournaments you have to take chances. I'd take the chance and go for a bigger pot. Its very possible to get paid off calling, staying pat, and having someone raise you post w/ a flush, thinking that they outran your straight (esp'ly if they make an Ace-high flush.. they'll be thinking they can beat most of your pat hands).

[List]

Smooth calling here is beyond bad. You aren't concerned about being sucked out on, but as soon as you stand pat post draw it limits your action. Either your opponents will check call or check fold.

Pretty much always reraise pat hands predraw. I usually raise almost pot, but have no problem with you raising 120ish. Given that it's an mtt instead of a cash game, and is probably relatively low buy in/skill level, people are more likely to call your raise predraw.

Domit, a flush draw is likely calling a raise anyway, and stacking off when it hits, or at least calling a bigger pot sized bet post draw when it hits. By just calling you are making the pot smaller, not bigger, and you're often killing your action.

[Tom Bayes]

I'd go with the medium sized raise. I don't like smooth calling in this situation because it will be hard to get action after the swap. We want to build a pot in case someone hits a draw or doesn't believe you after the draw, and a pot-sized raise will chase most out with flush draws and two pair hands and the other stuff we want to keep in. If you know your villain is eager to call pot-sized raises with lots of hands, then do so. Most opponents who have trips or better in these tourneys will come over the top no matter what you raise and you can get your stack in. Smooth calling eliminates the chance of getting someone all-in before the swap and gives the guy with trips a chance to not get felted.

Save smooth-calling with a strong pat hand for rare situations where you are UTG or UTG+1 and have very LAGgy players behind you that will almost always raise, so you can re-raise. Never slowplay your weaker pat hands (straights and weaker flushes).

Another thing is that "getting value from pat hands" usually involves what has happened in previous hands (or previous tourneys for regular players). If you have a tight solid image, you won't get any action after the draw unless someone hits a draw, and even then they might be cautious and not jam, but will just call down and not risk their whole stack. If you've been caught bluffing and have a loose/bluffy image, then you've got a bit more leeway to play pat hands in cute, fancy ways, because people might think you are F.O.S. again.

[bigpooch]

Why wouldn't you reraise here? There are TWO opponents,
both of which can call another raise. I wouldn't make a
pot-sized raise unless these PL tournaments have many
players that routinely cold call a pot-size raise (in cash
games, you see more folding - I don't know about 0.25-0.5
or 0.5-1 PL draw). On the other hand, there is a case for
making the maximum raise and betting the maximum on the end
just in case someone might think you're on a steal.

[THEjDonk]

Thanks for the responses so far. I probably know more about limit 5CD than pot limit, so I'm trying to find some strategies to use.

I'm thinking about making pot sized raises with good but vulnerable hands, and making smaller raises with slightly weaker hands and really great hands. I suppose this is somewhat exploitable, so maybe I should mix it up a little too.

I thought that there were some arguments for smooth calling, but I did think that a raise would probably be better. I suppose that the limper might fold anyway because he risks another reraise, but I would want the original raiser to call or raise. If he calls, I suppose that the cold caller will often get involved if he has a decent draw (and maybe he calls even if the original raiser folds).