Today's Washington Post and why libertarians fear Dems

wdcbooks · #1 12-23-2006, 01:06 PM

I am an infrequent poster to the Politics forum, but an avid reader. I am a fairly mainstream statist libertarian who has historically voted Democrat. The Dem gains in recent elections should have made me happy as I am no fan of Bush, and I am always happy to see the religious right take a beating.

Two items in today's Washington Post have me reconsidering whether we didn't exchange one set of problems for another.

First we have a headline, "Toyota Expects to be World's No.1 Automaker Next Year". I actually choked a bit on my coffee when I read this quote by Representative John Dingell,

"If Toyota's worldwide productions surpasses General Motors, it will simply provide further evidence of the need for the U.S. government to pursue policies that maintan and strengthen the U.S. industrial base."

To any reasonable person the preeminence of Toyota is a reflection of the poor quality of GM products and profligate spending spanning decades. The idea that my tax dollars will be sought to prop up a lousy business model makes no sense. I had hoped this thinking was a relic of the old Democratic party, but I find I am collecting examples every day as the Dems prepare to implement their agenda.

The second item is an op-ed piece by Byron Dorgan and Sherrod Brown. I am not sure I even need to quote the text as the title says all we really need to know, "How Free Trade Hurts". Ok, I will grace you with one quote:

The American market is the most desirable in the world. Every country wants access to it. That gives us a great deal of leverage, if only we'd use it. "

I am not quite sure what I am trying to accomplish with this post. I guess I am asking Iron and other reasonable Democrats if they can understand why this rhetoric is deeply troubing to economic conservatives who would be their allies? Is the curbing of free trade an indispensable part of the mainstream Democratic agenda, or is this analagous to the endless mutterings over abortion? Something said to appease the base without an intention to make it policy?

TomCollins · #2 12-23-2006, 01:08 PM

I had no idea if this guy was a R or D, but I guaranteed he was from the Detroit area. Of course he wants more pork to his district.

lehighguy · #3 12-23-2006, 01:30 PM

A statist libraterian?

Anyway, in answer to your post the democratic plan for us being unproductive is to blame foriegners. Just turn on Lou Dobbs.

RR · #4 12-23-2006, 01:32 PM

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The idea that my tax dollars will be sought to prop up a lousy business model makes no sense. I had hoped this thinking was a relic of the old Democratic party, but I find I am collecting examples every day as the Dems prepare to implement their agenda.

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I am not convinved there is an old or ne Democratic party. I remember a Clinton/Gore ad in 2002 where tehy promoted themselves as "new" Deomcrats. I really think this is an attempt to seperate themselves from the losers of the past. I hope I am wrong, but the feeling I get is the Deomcrats are thinking "we can get in our social programs and really stick to the guys with money, but we have to pretend we are moderates."

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I guess I am asking Iron and other reasonable Democrats if they can understand why this rhetoric is deeply troubing to economic conservatives who would be their allies?

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I am an economic conservative. I am really upset with the Republicans, but I see Democrats as being exactly opposite of what I would like on most economic issues.

wdcbooks · #5 12-23-2006, 01:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A statist libraterian?

Anyway, in answer to your post the democratic plan for us being unproductive is to blame foriegners. Just turn on Lou Dobbs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only here would I feel the need to qualify that I am not an ACer, or a prospective ACer.

Borodog · #6 12-23-2006, 01:41 PM

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A statist libraterian?

[/ QUOTE ]

All minarchist libertarians are statist libertarians, also known as "the confused." [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, in answer to your post the democratic plan for us being unproductive is to blame foriegners. Just turn on Lou Dobbs.

[/ QUOTE ]

No kidding. That guy is a [censored] nut.

Nielsio · #7 12-23-2006, 01:59 PM

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A statist libraterian?

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Don't you know? The communist capitalist.

They hate the state for stealing money and providing monopolist services on healthcare, war, education, banking/currency, etc, etc.

And they love the state for stealing money and providing monopolist services on arbitration, police and defense.

lehighguy · #8 12-23-2006, 02:40 PM

So what are you?

You can't be a libraterian and a statist. It's rather confusin without giving some background on what you believe.

I mean, if you voting Democrat, your supporting an awfully big state. Huge taxes, huge bureacracy, huge welfare programs. Democrats are such leaps and bounds from libraterian I don't really think there is any possible comparison.

If your just someone who loves welfare programs and wants the state to let you [censored] with and smoke what you want then your a liberal, not a libraterian.

nietzreznor · #9 12-23-2006, 02:45 PM

Perhaps a better word would be 'moderate' libertarian, i.e. someone who generally favors far less government in all areas, but who thinks that some government is necessary/desirable.

And I don't know if voting Dem is such a big deal right now, since Republicans are so bad.

Nielsio · #10 12-23-2006, 02:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps a better word would be 'moderate' libertarian, i.e. someone who generally favors far less government in all areas, but who thinks that some government is necessary/desirable.

And I don't know if voting Dem is such a big deal right now, since Republicans are so bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's called minarchist. And it's rather stupid imho. They want to go back to 1776 just so it can become a monster-state again. ugh.