Was there ever live poker before the internet?

[Photoc]

You guys would think with all these "they sky is falling" posts on all these forums that people would get a clue.

People need to realize, live poker was around long before internet poker was. Internet poker just opened more people up to poker, as did casinos, and televised poker. Brick and mortar poker will do fine. People are still going to go on vacation, they are still going to play home games and want that "Vegas" feel, and they will still go to the casinos and play that "new fangled game" called poker.

I just dont see live poker being hurt, only helped. So what, there are more good players coming into the live games. That only means more games, more players, more money out there to play with/for. And, btw, low limit games will always be around because pros dont even bother trying to grind out a living playing 2/4 and 3/6. So in reality, most of the games everyone is getting worried about, are the ones that pros don't touch to begin with.

On a side note. Lots of these online pros are going to have to get real jobs when they realize they can't multi table 5/10 limit holdem in a casino and actually make a living doing it. Also, quite a few of them don't even live near casinos, this is just one reason they play online.

[goodgrief]

Live poker was dying and poker rooms were closing because of their cost to the casino pre the online gaming boom. I am sorry but that's reality. You can look it up.

[Curse]

some. and were

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
Live poker was dying and poker rooms were closing because of their cost to the casino pre the online gaming boom. I am sorry but that's reality. You can look it up.

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Where should we look up this assertion of yours? It doesn't sound true at all.

What dates are you comparing? If you compare live poker in 1973 to live poker in 2003, then a lot more rooms and games existed. In fact, massive new casinos in Atlantic City, Conneticutt, and the South were created and offered poker between those years.

Generally speaking, poker has consistantly grown and had different spurts of growth such as when California legalized hold 'em and stud (1988?).

Poker never cost casinos money as you say. It's was and still is simply at the bottom of profits/square foot of casino floor space.

[Rottersod]

Exactly. From the way some of the internet only players talk you'd think that pre 2003 there was no such thing as live poker except for home games and high stakes Vegas tables. Maybe this has to do with the fact that many of these people live in areas where there are no local casinos. Here in LA we have had local casinos/cardrooms for a long time and poker has been very popular although I'll admit that post 2003 it has really taken off and the rooms have devoted a lot more money to the NL games.

However, local casinos like the bike, commerce, etc also have very profitable games running that are not poker. Games such as pai gao, super 9, california blackjack, Caribbean stud. Back in the early 90's I played a lot of california blackjack (back then it was called california aces or 22 and it was very different from today's version. They also had the hottest looking dealers in the whole casino (Jill Wong and Siriwan were the standouts)) and super 9 and the money on those tables was at least the equal of any NL games today. The house took an ante from every player on every hand so they made out quite well (and still do).

So, even if internet poker dies the local casino's will still do OK. They will have to adjust their rooms but they will. Owning a casino is the closest thing to be able to print your own money.

[goodgrief]

I'm old but not so old as to be around in 1973. I'm comparing the early 1990s to the later 1990s. On the Gulf Coast, in the beginning, every casino opened with a poker room, even the tiny ones like Lady Luck. Almost all were closed, including Beau Rivage poker room, because the money was to be made in slot machines. Like it or not, that's the way it was. Surely you can check it out in the gaming or business journals of the day. The Beau Rivage closing was, in particular, quite a sensation because it pretty much marked poker as a dying game in the south, like craps, where the average age of the player is about 105 (only a slight exaggeration). Some of the poker rooms were notorious for being places where locals hung out to get free pizza -- an example being Treasure Bay/Biloxi. Another fun example would be Casino Magic/Bay St. Louis, where they had to pass a ban on knitting, because otherwise the local ladies would play very tight all day, work on their knitting, and just sit around to get a jackpot. Most of the rooms simply weren't successful, and if you weren't actually here, it seems to me that it should be a matter of public record since several of these casinos were/are publically owned. Let's not kid ourselves. Legal live poker was on its way out prior to the online gaming explosion.

[goodgrief]

And you get an advantage at California aces how exactly?

Some sites have an "eyes roll" smiley. We need one here. Sure, many casinos will do just fine. But they would do "just finer" if every game requiring a live dealer was replaced by a machine.

[ QUOTE ]
So, even if internet poker dies the local casino's will still do OK. They will have to adjust their rooms but they will. Owning a casino is the closest thing to be able to print your own money.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why The Donald goes bankrupt all the time.

I don't mean to tease but if you are trying to argue some point of view...maybe you had better spell it out in words of one syllable, because I haven't a clue what you are trying to say. Casinos fail all the time. So do poker rooms. So do poker players. What's that got to do with the price of rice? The fact remains that prior to the internet explosion, poker rooms were closing and being replaced with banks of slot machines, sheesh. What's the point in denying known facts?

[Rottersod]

[ QUOTE ]
And you get an advantage at California aces how exactly?

Some sites have an "eyes roll" smiley. We need one here. Sure, many casinos will do just fine. But they would do "just finer" if every game requiring a live dealer was replaced by a machine.

[ QUOTE ]
So, even if internet poker dies the local casino's will still do OK. They will have to adjust their rooms but they will. Owning a casino is the closest thing to be able to print your own money.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why The Donald goes bankrupt all the time.

I don't mean to tease but if you are trying to argue some point of view...maybe you had better spell it out in words of one syllable, because I haven't a clue what you are trying to say. Casinos fail all the time. So do poker rooms. So do poker players. What's that got to do with the price of rice? The fact remains that prior to the internet explosion, poker rooms were closing and being replaced with banks of slot machines, sheesh. What's the point in denying known facts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Now you are sounding like a troll but I'll humor you one more time. Casino's may have failed where you live but here in LA - Los Angeles to the yokels - (where slots are not permitted btw) the local cardrooms were doing fine. They weren't up to the level of a Vegas casino and a few went under due to poor management but that had nothing to do with poker dying. It never did.

[sternroolz]

I think your error is applying what was happening in casinos in the gulf area to the rest of the nation. The two posters you are in conflict in are from Las Vegas and Los Angeles(I think).

From the mid to late 90's, poker expanded in Los Angeles. Crystal Park opened, Hollywood Park added a 50 table plus card room, Commerce expanded, and plans were made to tear down El Dorado club and make Hustler instead.

In Las Vegas, while smaller rooms closed, Bellagio and Orleans opened large(by vegas standards) rooms during the same time period. Binions still was going strong and featured limit games as big as $20-40 on a regular basis.

Same thing in AC.

Now no doubt things really caught fire after 2002 or so....but that is not because of internet poker. The intial push came from WPT airings. For instance...4 years ago Commerce would MAYBE get 1 $100 or $200 buy in NL game and 1 high limit NL game. Now, due to the television showing only NL, Commerce features probably over 50 NL tables every night.

Bottom line is that B&M poker in the centralized poker areas was expanding at a real decent rate. The advent of televised poker made that rate of expansion much greater.
[ QUOTE ]
And you get an advantage at California aces how exactly?

Some sites have an "eyes roll" smiley. We need one here. Sure, many casinos will do just fine. But they would do "just finer" if every game requiring a live dealer was replaced by a machine.

[ QUOTE ]
So, even if internet poker dies the local casino's will still do OK. They will have to adjust their rooms but they will. Owning a casino is the closest thing to be able to print your own money.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why The Donald goes bankrupt all the time.

I don't mean to tease but if you are trying to argue some point of view...maybe you had better spell it out in words of one syllable, because I haven't a clue what you are trying to say. Casinos fail all the time. So do poker rooms. So do poker players. What's that got to do with the price of rice? The fact remains that prior to the internet explosion, poker rooms were closing and being replaced with banks of slot machines, sheesh. What's the point in denying known facts?

[/ QUOTE ]

[Ignignokt]

[ QUOTE ]
Live poker was dying and poker rooms were closing because of their cost to the casino pre the online gaming boom. I am sorry but that's reality. You can look it up.

[/ QUOTE ]

It wasn't an online gaming boom. It was a poker boom.

If the 2003 WSOP and first WPT season consisted of a picture of a table surrounded by avatars of Phil Ivey and bikini girls, going "click click" as chips magically appeared in front of their seats, and a big sign that said CONGRATULATIONS!! at the end of every hand, you might have a point.