Two Plus Two Newer Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Newer Archives > General Poker Discussion > Brick and Mortar

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-11-2007, 01:23 PM
0524432 0524432 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 461
Default Straight flush mucked at 200nl Foxwoods?

Venue: Foxwoods WPT Poker Room
Game: 1-2 nlhe

On the river, in a HU pot, Hero moves all in with JTc on a [JhAhX][2h][4h] after heavy betting on flop and turn. Villain, after tanking for minutes (at a live tbl mind you) turns up 35h in front of his stack and across the line on the table and says angrily "I had you til the [censored] river". A middle aged showdown muppet on the other end of the table immediately says "You have a straight flush". Villain embarassingly starts putting his stacks of $ into the pot as fast as possible saying, I never said fold. Hero becomes furious, claiming nobody turns their cards up over the line at the table and says anything like "I had you til the [censored] river" when they're are going to be calling. Villain claims, he never said the word "fold". After 2 seperate floor managers talk it over and a huge scene in the Foxwoods poker room they decide.......

You're the floor, what's your decision? (Results to come after some discussion)
  #2  
Old 10-11-2007, 01:30 PM
Pscam10 Pscam10 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 128
Default Re: Straight flush mucked at 200nl Foxwoods?

Cards speak... Straight flush wins the pot
  #3  
Old 10-11-2007, 01:34 PM
0524432 0524432 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 461
Default Re: Straight flush mucked at 200nl Foxwoods?

this is not a made up scenario btw, this actually happened, if you read this, post a response
  #4  
Old 10-11-2007, 01:36 PM
AngusThermopyle AngusThermopyle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Riding Binky toward Ankh-Morpork
Posts: 4,366
Default Re: Be the floor, make the call

Did not say 'Fold'
Did not muck cards (at least by my definition)
See numerous other threads on 'if I expose my hand HU on the river is it dead?' re if your club allows that.

Last time I checked, a straight flush beats a pair of Jacks.

And MrLoudmouth gets a sledgehammer to the huevos.
  #5  
Old 10-11-2007, 01:39 PM
lonn19 lonn19 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 411
Default Re: Straight flush mucked at 200nl Foxwoods?

The guy threw his cards over the line. Doesn't that equal a fold?
  #6  
Old 10-11-2007, 01:41 PM
Poshua Poshua is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 508
Default Re: Straight flush mucked at 200nl Foxwoods?

This is not a case where "cards speak" is the key matter, because the hand is not at showdown. Villain had to call a bet to get to showdown. Regardless of what Villain's cards say, the question is whether his action of placing the cards in the center and declaring "I had you til the river" constituted a fold.

I think it's hard to interpret that action as other than a fold. Further, if it wasn't a fold, Villain and "Middle aged showdown muppet" have violated One Player to a Hand.

As such, I would award the pot to Hero. MASM gets a warning not to play others' hands. Villain presumably learns his lesson on his own.
  #7  
Old 10-11-2007, 01:44 PM
0524432 0524432 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 461
Default Re: Straight flush mucked at 200nl Foxwoods?

[ QUOTE ]
This is not a case where "cards speak" is the key matter, because the hand is not at showdown. Villain had to call a bet to get to showdown. Regardless of what Villain's cards say, the question is whether his action of placing the cards in the center and declaring "I had you til the river" constituted a fold.



[/ QUOTE ]

ding ding ding
  #8  
Old 10-11-2007, 01:45 PM
AngusThermopyle AngusThermopyle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Riding Binky toward Ankh-Morpork
Posts: 4,366
Default Re: Straight flush mucked at 200nl Foxwoods?

[ QUOTE ]
Further, if it wasn't a fold, Villain and "Middle aged showdown muppet" have violated One Player to a Hand.



[/ QUOTE ]

How did Villain violate that rule? Did he solicit advice?

If there is a bet on the river to you, and I offer unsolicited advice that "you should call", I have violated the rule. Not you. Your hand is not dead.
  #9  
Old 10-11-2007, 01:47 PM
ungarop ungarop is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 230
Default Re: Straight flush mucked at 200nl Foxwoods?

Nit alert... there is no 200NL at Foxwoods. I assume OP means the 1/2 (60-300 buy-in) game since the 2/5 is 300MIN.
  #10  
Old 10-11-2007, 01:48 PM
Pscam10 Pscam10 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 128
Default Re: Straight flush mucked at 200nl Foxwoods?

Agreed, "cards speak" doesn't apply because villain still has to call a bet. However, how can the pot be awarded to hero here? Once he realised he had the best hands and made the call its his pot. Middle-aged women violated the one person to a hand rule, but what can be done besides warning her?

Villain never said fold. Can he be penalized for exposing his hand while heads up when all betting is finished?
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.