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#1
04-12-2006, 11:55 PM
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\"If you Can\'t Call a Reraise...\": Two hands where I raise in EP
Two hands from the Stars 150. Happened very close to each other. I have a reasonable image, not ultra-tight but not loose either. None of the big stacks are maniacs.
In both cases, I looked at my hand and pretty much autoraised to 3x. Then I looked at the size of the stacks to act after me and wondered if I might as well have rags. I can't call/push vs a reraise. Can I? My hand doesn't like more than half of flops if I'm flat called, and I'm out of position. Usually when I get action it's a reraise anyway. Thoughts? PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (8 handed) internettexasholdem.com CO (t12975) Button (t19849) SB (t16750) BB (t8947) UTG (t4127) UTG+1 (t6895) Hero (t9780) MP2 (t16124) Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1220</font> PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (8 handed) internettexasholdem.com Button (t14515) SB (t18109) BB (t16410) UTG (t10167) UTG+1 (t3387) MP1 (t6155) Hero (t13041) CO (t16344) Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1220</font>, 
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#2
04-13-2006, 12:02 AM
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Re: \"If you Can\'t Call a Reraise...\": Two hands where I raise in EP
Good post, I have been in the exact same position alot lately. I raise with a good hand then get reraised all in and have to fold and lose a good chunk of my stack.
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#3
04-13-2006, 12:04 AM
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Re: \"If you Can\'t Call a Reraise...\": Two hands where I raise in EP
Just thought I'd throw results out there b/c they're meaningless - everyone folded both times. I.E. This is a not a bad beat post.
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#4
04-13-2006, 12:35 AM
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Re: \"If you Can\'t Call a Reraise...\": Two hands where I raise in EP
So, what is the point? Are you saying you shouldn't be raising with these hands or something?
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#5
04-13-2006, 02:35 AM
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Re: \"If you Can\'t Call a Reraise...\": Two hands where I raise in EP
[ QUOTE ]
So, what is the point? Are you saying you shouldn't be raising with these hands or something? [/ QUOTE ] I'm not sure what my point is. The reason I made the post is exactly what I said - it doesn't seem like I want anything but folds, given the situation - medium stack and everyone behind me covers me. But clearly folding these hands seems wrong. The larger point is that there is definitely a line of the type I'm alluding too. I'll raise 66 in EP/MP in some situations, but definitely wouldn't in this situation. Same for AT. 77? 88? AJ? Where's the line? What's the worst hand you raise "for value" here? What does "for value" mean when you face reraises way more frequently than calls? If it doesn't mean "good enough to call a reraise", why not? In other words, is the parlay of - the extra value of AQs and 99 over 73o after the flop if flatcalled and - the likelihood of being flatcalled enough that this in fact a "value raise" even though I can't call a reraise? I want to think that it is, for these two hands. But there is a line at which it no longer is. Usually the line is at 55 or 66 for pairs and something like KJ/KQ/AT for broadways. But the line is a function of stack dynamics, so couldn't there be a case where the line is this high? If not AQs, AQo? AJs? I'm bunching AQs in with 99 here, but maybe that's wrong. After all, AQs likes more flops and has less to worry about on the flops it likes, especially because AK almost always reraises. I made the opening post without a conclusion in mind but I think there's a lot to think about with respect to decisions like these with a medium stack. Primarily, position plays such a big role in late-game medium stack play. Not only am I UTG+1 or MP2 or whatever, but relative position to bigger stacks. Raising in the CO with J8s and one big stack behind you (in the SB say) is much better, I think, than raising 99 in MP1 with 4 big stacks sitting behind you. Or, raising 99 UTG with the second biggest stack is much better than raising it in MP with a medium stack and two big stacks behind you. If the above statements aren't true exactly as specified, something like them is definitely true. That's where I'm aiming.
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#6
04-13-2006, 01:22 PM
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Re: \"If you Can\'t Call a Reraise...\": Two hands where I raise in EP
BUMP b/c I think there's something to discuss here and my second post was made late night.
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#7
04-13-2006, 01:58 PM
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Re: \"If you Can\'t Call a Reraise...\": Two hands where I raise in EP
I too have been in the same situation a recently and felt as if my hand might as well have been rags.
I agree, 99 and AQs in these situations call for a raise. But I, too, am finding myself groaning and folding to late position/Blind aggression here on a regular basis. Or, even worse, I flat call a raise up to 2500 or 3000 and am lost on the flop. Am I playing too weak-tight? Or are these correct laydowns that unfortunately take a decent portion of your stack away from you?
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#8
04-13-2006, 02:49 AM
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Re: \"If you Can\'t Call a Reraise...\": Two hands where I raise in EP
[ QUOTE ]
I have a reasonable image, not ultra-tight but not loose either. [/ QUOTE ] Not to thread hijack or anything, but how do you know this playing online? Your image is your opponents' perceptions of you, not your perception of you. How do you know playing online what you think your opponents' perception of your play could be?
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#9
04-13-2006, 02:56 AM
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Re: \"If you Can\'t Call a Reraise...\": Two hands where I raise in EP
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I have a reasonable image, not ultra-tight but not loose either. [/ QUOTE ] Not to thread hijack or anything, but how do you know this playing online? Your image is your opponents' perceptions of you, not your perception of you. How do you know playing online what you think your opponents' perception of your play could be? [/ QUOTE ] Good point. Obviously, you can't, just like you can't know when someone isn't paying attention at all. I think it's commonly understood that image descriptions really describe the way your opponents would see you if they were paying attention. I do expect most of the people in a 150 at this stage to somewhat accurately aware of my prior actions.
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#10
04-13-2006, 03:01 AM
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Re: \"If you Can\'t Call a Reraise...\": Two hands where I raise in EP
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I have a reasonable image, not ultra-tight but not loose either. [/ QUOTE ] Not to thread hijack or anything, but how do you know this playing online? Your image is your opponents' perceptions of you, not your perception of you. How do you know playing online what you think your opponents' perception of your play could be? [/ QUOTE ] You can make an educated guess at how they see you by recounting how you have been playing, particularly in the last few orbits. Your image would obviously be aggressive if you had raised the last few times it was folded to you in EP and your image would be tight if you hadn't played a hand in a few orbits. Obviously this isn't an exact science as you don't know if they have noticed anything about your play, but it something to take into consideration.
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