Blackjack, can you win without counting?

[chicagoY]

I posted a question yesterday about the Gregorian System. I guess the reason that I checked it out was that I know I lack the Ungarian ability to count cards. Flat out, is blackjack always -EV if you don't count? I know surrender would help but I've never been to a casino that had it. Is there anybody here who wins without counting?
Thanks, last time I bother you guys.

[playersare]

without counting, you would have to exploit casino promotions such as match plays, free ace coupons or the extremely rare 2-to-1 on blackjack deals in order to overcome house edge at virtually every casino in america, in addition to having good starting rules. you can also cut your edge down by placing bets for other players at the same table if they choose not to do it themselves, such as buying profitable double downs and splits (make sure you get back both your original bet and the winnings if it hits, of course).

the Barona casino in San Diego has a well-known single deck game with a house edge of only 0.02%, with $100 minimum bets. the only BJ game I'm aware of that is mathematically +EV to the player right off the bat is the Horseshoe in Bossier City, Louisiana. their single deck stands on soft 17 and allows doubling after splitting, which will make YOU about +0.14% on all bets in the long run ($25 bet minimum).

most of the "good" shoe-based games will have a house edge between 0.25% and 0.50%, which is really not that much once you factor in comps. just learning perfect basic strategy will make you better than 99% of the people who play this game, so start with that and then see if counting makes sense for your financial and/or entertainment goals. you'll find that if you understand why counting works in the first place, it's really not hard to learn and put into practice.

[CORed]

There used to be some single deck S17 DAS games in Colorado. There may still be a few, but I haven't looked lately. Of course Colorado is $5 max bet, so your EV is less than a dollar an hour, so if you tip a dollar more than once an hour the game is -EV, but + EV for the dealer.

[_TKO_]

[ QUOTE ]
you can also cut your edge down by placing bets for other players at the same table if they choose not to do it themselves, such as buying profitable double downs and splits

[/ QUOTE ]

This is allowed?

[spikeanut]

there's actually a BJ game in California that I believe is really +EV. The dealer stands on soft 17, 5 decks, player can surrender anytime, and double down anytime. Craziest thing I've ever seen. Meaning, if I get a 3 and 2 in the hole, and a face card on the next card, I can elect to surrender at that moment, likewise, if I have a 2 and 3, and get a 6 next card, I may DD if I wanted to. Everyone around socal should go play BJ at Hawaiian Gardens Casino...relatively small casino, but you can't beat those BJ odds.

[WLVRYN]

Is that one of those games where you pay an ante to play a hand? I know the California Indian casinos at one point (I dont know if they still do or not) couldnt win money from gambling on card games, but could collect an ante to play a hand to make their money. That meant that the games had to be designed to be EV neutral, and they did it with crazy rules like this and hand bonuses. The game was still -EV because you had to pay the ante to play.

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
Is that one of those games where you pay an ante to play a hand? I know the California Indian casinos at one point (I dont know if they still do or not) couldnt win money from gambling on card games, but could collect an ante to play a hand to make their money. That meant that the games had to be designed to be EV neutral, and they did it with crazy rules like this and hand bonuses. The game was still -EV because you had to pay the ante to play.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure the California Indian casinos have been allowed to run house banked blackjack for a few years. But I suspect there is something that offsetes (or more likely more than offsets) the apparently juicy rules. It might be 6:5 blackjack, or something equally sucky.

[CORed]

That sounds too good to be true. Are you sure this isn't Spanish 21 (no tens in the deck) or 6:5 blackjack payout? There has to be a catch.

[SNOWBALL]

how much time have you spent learning how to count? You might not want to quit before you give it more effort.

And to answer your question: yes. If you can manage to see the dealer's hole card, you can win without counting.

[chicagoY]

Thanks a lot for the advice guys. I imagine more than a few people take the hike to Bossier City.