Cheating Poll:

GrannyMae · #1 03-26-2006, 04:31 PM

Please be honest.

solucky · #2 03-26-2006, 05:14 PM

HAHA

81% no i dont cheat. If you define cheating like the T& C perhaps not. But imagine you are a new player like me 2 years ago and than you hear that software save any game and people know that you raise only with AA KK AK and that you call a reraise only with the nuts. This players will see the use from PT, calculators as cheating.

pokerdan1201 · #3 03-27-2006, 12:49 PM

Cheating is really hit down on hard by the sites, I am suprised that the percentage is so high. Although I am sure some people said they had just to look "bad."

I do not see what people gain from cheating...."MONEY!!!" I hear you shout! but to get any kind of decent amoung from cheating you would have to cheat at high steak tables, where cheating is easily noticed by the site, or lots of small steak tables which is just as easy to pick up.

tomdemaine · #4 03-26-2006, 05:28 PM

I don't cheat but I do use PokerTracker which i consider to be somewhat unethical given that not everyone knows about it.

bigballz · #5 03-26-2006, 05:31 PM

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I don't cheat but I do use PokerTracker which i consider to be somewhat unethical given that not everyone knows about it.

[/ QUOTE ]
yes, keeping track of your play is sooooooo illegal.

tomdemaine · #6 03-26-2006, 05:46 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
I don't cheat but I do use PokerTracker which i consider to be somewhat unethical given that not everyone knows about it.

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yes, keeping track of your play is sooooooo illegal.

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Great post

1. Who said anything about illegal
2. Lets not kid ourselves that PT isn't used for opponent profiling too
3. You're a jerk

Ok I kinda ran out after 2 but the point stands [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

bigballz · #7 03-26-2006, 08:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't cheat but I do use PokerTracker which i consider to be somewhat unethical given that not everyone knows about it.

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I guess what I mean is that, many players don't know about books, or 2+2, or ICM calculators (sng jargon), or a bunch of other stuff that could make you better. PT alone is just keep track of your stats. The integrity of HUD's, however, is a whole different argument.

CountDuckula · #8 03-26-2006, 08:57 PM

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I don't cheat but I do use PokerTracker which i consider to be somewhat unethical given that not everyone knows about it.

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I think it depends on how you use it. I don't see anything unethical about using it only to track your own play. Using it to spy out the competition may be wandering into a grey area, and I'm definitely opposed to pairing it with an HUD.

-Mike

sandycove · #9 03-26-2006, 09:06 PM

Interesting that GT+ and Poker Ace are perceived by some as borderline on the ethics scale, but no mention is being made of that segment of the population that takes advantage of unauthorized rakeback schemes on Party – an activity that is clearly proscribed by the poker room and a practice that I consider to be unfair, since it means that some opponents are paying less to play than you are, on an ongoing basis.

Party Poker’s marketing manager makes a lot of noise preaching against rakeback – although his basic argument is that affiliates would cannibalize each other’s players. But Party’s attrition rate is a whopping 75 percent, its new-player acquisition costs are enormous and one-third of its new players are attracted via affiliates. So I believe he speaks with forked tongue and turns a blind eye to sub-rosa affiliate kickbacks.

I was unaware that Party specifically disapproves of GT+ and Poker Ace. My view is that these tools definitely confer a real-time advantage, but are transparent and inexpensively available to all, much as bonus offers are. I believe Poker Tracker is fundamentally a comprehensive self-help tool, and an indispensable one at that.

Off-table data mining was certainly a sharp practice, but that has been severely reduced.

I HAVE cheated twice in my life: once on an insignificant test and once on a wife. I'm sorry about the test.

CountDuckula · #10 03-26-2006, 09:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting that GT+ and Poker Ace are perceived by some as borderline on the ethics scale, but no mention is being made of that segment of the population that takes advantage of unauthorized rakeback schemes on Party – an activity that is clearly proscribed by the poker room and a practice that I consider to be unfair, since it means that some opponents are paying less to play than you are, on an ongoing basis.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's sort of like saying that someone who gets a volume discount from a business is cheating those who don't. Regardless, I don't see this as part of the same issue.

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker’s marketing manager makes a lot of noise preaching against rakeback – although his basic argument is that affiliates would cannibalize each other’s players. But Party’s attrition rate is a whopping 75 percent, its new-player acquisition costs are enormous and one-third of its new players are attracted via affiliates. So I believe he speaks with forked tongue and turns a blind eye to sub-rosa affiliate kickbacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps so. I think Party would be better off setting up some sort of high-volume discount of their own, and limiting what's paid to affiliates instead of giving them a slice of all rake generated by their players indefinitely. Maybe pay them a nice bounty for each player brought in. If they did something like that, rakeback would go away. The affiliates might be able to offer a share of the bounty to entice players to sign up under them, but they wouldn't be able to give out kickbacks on an ongoing basis.

[ QUOTE ]
I was unaware that Party specifically disapproves of GT+ and Poker Ace. My view is that these tools definitely confer a real-time advantage, but are transparent and inexpensively available to all, much as bonus offers are.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's much the same argument offered by bot users. It's a difference in degree, not in kind. I don't think that much information should be available; ideally, I'd prefer that everyone relied on their own notes and human memory, not on real-time statistical tools and databases.

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I believe Poker Tracker is fundamentally a comprehensive self-help tool, and an indispensable one at that.

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I agree. But I only use it to analyze my own game, not to work out other people's playing styles while I'm at the table. Just my own sense of ethics.

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Off-table data mining was certainly a sharp practice, but that has been severely reduced.

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There we definitely agree. I don't believe that anyone is entitled to information that they didn't glean personally, either by playing at the table or observing it in person. I found the practice of observing 20 tables and collecting hand histories while the player wasn't even there revolting.

-Mike