Is this good 1 in 22 times?

Ryan2009 · #1 03-10-2006, 02:17 PM

Was I hopelessly tagging along or is it a profitable play?

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: (14 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, SB calls, Hero calls.

River: (18.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, MP2 calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 22.50 BB

Thanks for any suggestions,

Ryan

PS On a side note, I just received 25USD from Party Poker (haven't played there in months). I am able to play with that money right now. If I lose it, will they withdraw funds from my Neteller/Firepay accounts or is it really free money, no obligations.

Hume · #2 03-10-2006, 02:25 PM

Yes, pot is too huge to consider folding on the river.

Fantam · #3 03-10-2006, 02:28 PM

Its unlikely that you are good here, but UTG could have been overplaying something like Qx.

I think your calling down from the turn raise was correct.

It would be very frustrating to discover that you had been moved off the the best hand by agressive play in a big pot like this one.

bozlax · #4 03-10-2006, 02:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think your calling down from the turn raise was correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. 3-bet the turn. His raise could be a made hand better than yours, a made hand worse than yours, a semi-bluff with a draw, or a desperate bluff in a big pot. The majority of the time it'll be one of the latter 3 (probably the second, something like KQ that "waited until the turn to protect") in this situation, and not the first.

That'll make the river play differently, but with this coordinated a board if there's a bettor and a couple of callers before you I think you can lay the hand down. An overpair will not be good against 3 opponents 1 time in 20-something.

Aaron W. · #5 03-10-2006, 04:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think your calling down from the turn raise was correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. 3-bet the turn. His raise could be a made hand better than yours, a made hand worse than yours, a semi-bluff with a draw, or a desperate bluff in a big pot. The majority of the time it'll be one of the latter 3 (probably the second, something like KQ that "waited until the turn to protect") in this situation, and not the first.

That'll make the river play differently, but with this coordinated a board if there's a bettor and a couple of callers before you I think you can lay the hand down. An overpair will not be good against 3 opponents 1 time in 20-something.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm confused by this. The way you describe it, it sounds like you're looking to check-fold the river after 3-betting the turn. Being OOP makes this much closer to a call than a 3-bet on the turn, leading to something that's much closer to a call than a fold.

bozlax · #6 03-10-2006, 06:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm confused by this. The way you describe it, it sounds like you're looking to check-fold the river after 3-betting the turn. Being OOP makes this much closer to a call than a 3-bet on the turn, leading to something that's much closer to a call than a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, geez, you can make anything SOUND bad, can't you? [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

What I meant was, I would likely 3-bet this turn.

THEN, depending on the number of players seeing the river when the 3rd [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] fell and the action to me on the river, I might well feel compelled to fold it, then, being convinced that I was about to show down the 2nd-, 3rd- or 4th-best hand.

I think that going into call-down mode because of a single turn raise, tho, in this case, is weaksauce. There are cases where that raise would put me into call-down mode, or even have me folding my cards...this is not one of them.

Aaron W. · #7 03-10-2006, 06:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm confused by this. The way you describe it, it sounds like you're looking to check-fold the river after 3-betting the turn. Being OOP makes this much closer to a call than a 3-bet on the turn, leading to something that's much closer to a call than a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, geez, you can make anything SOUND bad, can't you? [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

What I meant was, I would likely 3-bet this turn.

THEN, depending on the number of players seeing the river when the 3rd [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] fell and the action to me on the river, I might well feel compelled to fold it, then, being convinced that I was about to show down the 2nd-, 3rd- or 4th-best hand.

I think that going into call-down mode because of a single turn raise, tho, in this case, is weaksauce. There are cases where that raise would put me into call-down mode, or even have me folding my cards...this is not one of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see what you're saying now.

I remember turn raises at Paradise .50/1 meaning substantial hands most of the time. The rate of semi-bluffing and waiting-to-the-turn-with-top-pair was pretty low. There was a time I considered that folding top pair to a turn raise might be right (it isn't because of the pot size - the strange donk plays happen often enough to call down). But this does indicate that slowing down is approrpriate unless you can beat a weak two pair.

Hoss Ballgag · #8 03-10-2006, 07:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think that going into call-down mode because of a single turn raise, tho, in this case, is weaksauce.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the best line I have read all day. "Weaksauce" has been dormant way too long!

kerowo · #9 03-11-2006, 09:43 AM

It is a rare table indeed where tp is good on the river with 4 callers on a 3-flush board.

Aaron W. · #10 03-10-2006, 02:31 PM

This reminds me of this post in the NC thread. I'm paying off with any good hand in a 20+ BB pot for one bet on the river. An overpair counts as a good hand.