50NL: Pot control line check with TPGK

[O.T.G.]

Villain is 19/9/1.4 over 1300 hands. I don't know why I played this hand so weird, but this opponent seems to love getting tricky with me and I just felt like playing a smallish pot.

Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

MP2 ($65.30)
CO ($12.95)
Hero ($57.75)
SB ($36.40)
BB ($87.20)
UTG ($67.05)
UTG+1 ($25.85)
MP1 ($57.90)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2.25</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $1.75, MP2 folds.

Flop: ($5.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($5.25) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $3.5</font>, Hero calls $3.50.

River: ($12.25) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $8</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $81.45 (All-In)</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $101.70

1)Was this a bad spot to check behind on the flop?
2)Once I hit 2 pair on the turn I thought I could get more value on the river from a slowplayed K or just a Q by just calling, but should I raise here?
3)Would you also value bet this river when the board pairs and the flush gets there?
4)I am never ever ever calling this river check raise against an opponent with these stats right?

[Bluegrassplayer]

I bet flop, raise turn and then c/c the river. Way too passive for me.

[O.T.G.]

This wasn't my normal line, but should the line I took just not even be taken ever?

I kinda wanted to slow down this player in the future against me. Even though the player does not have a big AF, he/she seems to be aggro toward me for some reason.

[AlexB182]

[ QUOTE ]
I bet flop, raise turn and then c/c the river. Way too passive for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or, of course, bet flop bet turn, eventually check river behind.

[coordi]

c-bet flop 85%+

raise turn 100%

check behind river.

[AllTheCheese]

Check behind is normal on this flop against this Villain. These people exaggerate.

[Makonnen]

[ QUOTE ]
I kinda wanted to slow down this player in the future against me. Even though the player does not have a big AF, he/she seems to be aggro toward me for some reason.

[/ QUOTE ]
But taking this line actually does the reverse. If you want to slow them down, you needed to play the flop and turn more passively. By playing this way, you encourage them in thinking that you're their bitch. Especially if this was your goal, you need to bet the flop and bet the turn large.

[AllTheCheese]

[ QUOTE ]

3)Would you also value bet this river when the board pairs and the flush gets there?

Yes.

4)I am never ever ever calling this river check raise against an opponent with these stats right?

No. I'll usually tell myself "Who the f*** plays a hand this way?" and try to convince myself to call, but river overbets from these types of players are pretty consistently the nuts.



[/ QUOTE ]

[AllTheCheese]

Alex, if Villain c/fs 77 or air on the flop and bets them, or check/calls (with the PP that is) on the turn, isn't that a merit? Certainly not unquestionable proof that checking is better than betting, but it's a merit, to be sure.

[RapidLearner]

[ QUOTE ]
1)Was this a bad spot to check behind on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]
1) I'd bet flop. Why c-bet at all with nothing if you're not going to c-bet with your good hands? Plus, there are plenty of draws you have to charge out there.
[ QUOTE ]
2)Once I hit 2 pair on the turn I thought I could get more value on the river from a slowplayed K or just a Q by just calling, but should I raise here?

[/ QUOTE ]
2) I'd raise. You'll get called from lots of 1 pair hands, and again you need to protect against the various draws, especially since you checked the flop.
[ QUOTE ]
3)Would you also value bet this river when the board pairs and the flush gets there?

[/ QUOTE ]
3) Depends on how loose/passive the villain is on the river. Against a guy who calls a lot with 1pair type hands, but nearly never bluff-check-raises the river, I'd bet it. Against a much tighter player who folds 1pair type hands, I'd probably check, since sets/flushes+ are the only hands that are going to look you up or raise you. Against a really agro player who will bluff raise you in this spot, I'd just check behind and cry that I missed good spots to agro it up on earlier streets.

All in all, a 19/9/1.4 is a bit too passive for you to call a c/rai after the line you took. I like the thin value bet though, because it looks like a spot where a bluff catcher will try to pick you off. Do you make bluff bets like this in practice?
[ QUOTE ]
4)I am never ever ever calling this river check raise against an opponent with these stats right?

[/ QUOTE ]
4) I'd need a strong read to look somebody up in a spot like this. His range is easily 22 or better that was trying to trap somewhere in the hand.