top boat scary river 4/8 live

AlienBoy · #1 11-12-2007, 03:12 AM

Sitting here at Commerce 4/8 - here's a hand that just came up:

(posted from my iPhone sorry for typos)

I'm UTG with AKo and I raise. 2 callers 2 folds 2 more callers sb folds bb calls.

13 SB

FLOP: A Q A

I bet out, 4 callers (lol Commercaments)

TURN: Q

I bet, mp1 calls and co calls

RIVER: Q

I ?????

AB

One Outer · #2 11-12-2007, 03:22 AM

Well, there are two people that called on the turn. Is there any value in this at all? Maybe someone will call with nothing and hope to chop. They certainly won't bet with nothing and hope to take it down.

I think you get called by nothing hoping to chop way more often than the Q is out. So I guess bet/call.

Yepitis · #3 11-12-2007, 04:12 AM

Ya, I think it is a pretty easy vaule bet, not a whole lot different then betting out with a small set that turns into a small boat.

Besides, how often do you get to pay off quads anyway?

AlienBoy · #4 11-12-2007, 04:58 AM

i forgot to mention reads

Mp1 is typical player semi loose and semi aggressive. CO in this hand a total calling station.

NOW: for the record I did bet out here. How many of you fold to a raise from mp1????

AB

elindauer · #5 11-12-2007, 01:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
NOW: for the record I did bet out here. How many of you fold to a raise from mp1????

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on what the 3rd player does. If he coldcalls, then that tells you that he holds the case A and you are calling for a chop. Worse, it means that the raiser does NOT hold an ace, and he's played his hand in a way that is totally consistent with holding a Q. In that spot, you should fold, since he just isn't going to be bluffing often enough to justify your calling for half the pot.

Now, if the 3rd player folds, then I'd make a crying call hoping that MP1 was doing something stupid like raising the case ace. He's obviously not a good player no matter what he holds, so make the crying call.

-Eric

AlienBoy · #6 11-12-2007, 06:44 PM

elindaur: thanks for your comment - that is how I analyzed after the hand - caught in the heat of the moment, I bet/called... In retrospect a check call would have been better.

What made it difficult at the time was the calling station who was calling down with literally anything at times...

AB

jesse8888 · #7 11-12-2007, 10:10 PM

FWIW I would never bet this river. Even if nobody has the case queen AND you can get the player who is playing the baord (Only 3 cards improve this board if I'm not mistaken...the Aces and case queen) to call, you only make half a bet. I have to believe somebody has a queen here often enough (1 time in 3 assuming the guy with nothing ALWAYS called) to make checking better than betting. Unless of course one or more of the players is, to quote a friend, a special kind of retarded

AlienBoy · #8 11-13-2007, 12:10 AM

Yea, I definitely agree that checking the river is correct, and my bet/call was spew - just call me a donkey.... lol... It occurred to me about 2 seconds after sticking the bet in - that's what I get for betting before fully thinking.

AB

elindauer · #9 11-12-2007, 01:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ya, I think it is a pretty easy vaule bet, not a whole lot different then betting out with a small set that turns into a small boat.

[/ QUOTE ]

What range do you put your opponents on when they call the turn bet? Wouldn't a player holding a Q be very likely to have played it exactly the way your opponents have played so far?

I can't figure out why quads seem so unlikely to you guys. What else could they hold?!

-eric

One Outer · #10 11-12-2007, 01:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ya, I think it is a pretty easy vaule bet, not a whole lot different then betting out with a small set that turns into a small boat.

[/ QUOTE ]

What range do you put your opponents on when they call the turn bet? Wouldn't a player holding a Q be very likely to have played it exactly the way your opponents have played so far?

I can't figure out why quads seem so unlikely to you guys. What else could they hold?!

-eric

[/ QUOTE ]

this could just be my experience in the games that I play, but I think they can have K high and trying to chop or even straight draws on the turn. The players we're playing against in these games are terrible and I'm not going to automatically give one of the credit for the last Q in the deck.

Although I see where you're coming from. I think the majority of the time the Q is not out there and we get calls hoping to chop.