Would you let him off

Zaphrous · #1 11-05-2007, 11:15 AM

A hand from a tourney this weekend.

I am in Mid position with AK and it folds to me. Blinds are 300/600 and I have about 8k and SB has about 11k after just winning a all-in hand. I raise to 2000 and SB is the only caller.
A little background on him. I have played against him in cash games before and just a couple weeks before I stacked him two hands in a row. He plays terrible and anytime he comes to a table everyone tries to isolate him.

Flop is KK3 w/ two [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. He checks and I check, I know if I give him some rope he will hang him self. The player to my right is very talkative and starts up a conversation with him about his hand. I didn't think much of it and wasn't listening closely so I don't remember what was said at this point.
Turn is a 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. He thinks for a couple of minutes and the player to might right starts to talk again and asks if he is thinking about going all-in(I only caught this part of conversation as the words All-in Immediately caught my attention) He says he is thinking about it. He checks and I check behind. I was a little worried about the flush but as bad as he is he could have almost anything.

River pairs the 3 and gives me the full house. The first thing he says after the river is out is "now I am going all-in" I say call and flip over my cards very quickly. As soon as he sees my cards he says " I was talking to (the player to my right) I wasn't going all-in for real" I say something to the effect that "You said All-in, you can't say that when its your turn to act then take it back"

I was considering what to do. This is not at a casino it is more of a charity thing although it is run more like a casino and runs 7 days a week. I had a little room to make the decision and not involve the floor. I was considering letting him off since I didn't want scare him off and not come back. He is a good source of income. He then said he would be fine with whatever the floor ruled. I was good with that as it was no longer in my hands and I knew what the floor would rule.

Floor comes over and it is described by the dealer and two regulars at the table what happened and the floor rules his statement as binding and I double off him.

My first reaction to his statement was he was trying to shoot an angle and see what I have as he was looking at me when he made his all in statement but later I was thinking that I might be wrong as I don't think he is able to think deep enough to get information from that kind of statement and use it effectively.

Does anyone let him off?

Lucypher · #2 11-05-2007, 11:28 AM

No, I would not let him off. I think you handled it well, too, based on the scenario you described.

Yads · #3 11-05-2007, 11:33 AM

Not a chance does he get off. This would open up a really bad angle if this were allowed.

Taso · #4 11-05-2007, 11:40 AM

Agree with the way you handled it.

Xanthro · #5 11-05-2007, 11:52 AM

Don't let him off, but wait till he puts his chips in before calling, and don't flip over your cards early and you won't be in this position.

esch · #6 11-05-2007, 12:03 PM

I'd need a lot more incentive to let him off than what you've given. Seems you handled it well.

FWIW, if I don't see chips in the middle (or see that all-in card they use in some places now), I almost always ask the dealer if the other guy went all-in or called before I say call or I flip the nuts face up.

the machine · #7 11-05-2007, 05:01 PM

never ever ever ever ever do i not consider this an all in. he said now i am going all in.

end

bav · #8 11-05-2007, 05:15 PM

OP did fine. It really at this point isn't supposed to be up to the players or the dealer to decide. Floor should be called, the facts related, and the decision of the floor is final. Nobody needs to feel good or bad about it or do things differently because it's a charity event.

the machine · #9 11-05-2007, 05:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
OP did fine. It really at this point isn't supposed to be up to the players or the dealer to decide. Floor should be called, the facts related, and the decision of the floor is final. Nobody needs to feel good or bad about it or do things differently because it's a charity event.

[/ QUOTE ]

totally agree, and i doubt that any floor would ever rule in the other guys favor. if they did i would never play there again, or id call another floor over first to see if they would confirm the first floors decision, if so then i would neevr play there again

pfapfap · #10 11-05-2007, 05:35 PM

I dunno. Am I the only one who thinks OP's actions are a bit of an angle-shoot? Maybe not deliberately, but I wouldn't be surprised if a retelling by an observer gave a different take on it. I see plenty of people who do various things that fall within the rules but tend to make things more difficult and uncomfortable for everybody. This seems like it could fall in that category, at the very least.

I see a lot of talk at the tables, and I can usually tell when someone's serious or not about a bet. I can also tell when someone's unsure about a bet. Why couldn't the OP just wait for the action to be complete? It seems he wanted to trap so badly, he didn't want to risk it not being a bet. That's very close to angle-shooting in my book. Context is everything, and a retelling to the floor won't have all the nuances and will have to be more black-and-white than reality.

Regardless of intent of either party, I think the OP handled himself very poorly. Wait for action to complete before responding to said action. Every time. This falls well within the category of PROTECT YOUR HAND.