HUSNG -- TT is fun.

[Nichomacheo]

This is something like the third hand, nothing as far as reads go.

Stacks are 1500/1500 with 10/20 blinds.

I raise from SB with TT (no club) to 60, he minraises to 100. Sometimes I'll re-raise, but I elected to call here. Any arguments for raising -- and if you do, what to?

Flop comes 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. He leads for 120 into the 200 pot. What's my move and why? If raise but not AI, what to and how do I respond to a 3-bet AI?

[Nichomacheo]

Daily double:

From everyone's experience, what hands do people like minraising preflop with? How much of that range is TT+?

[Indiana]

i have a hard time getting away from TT. I usually 4bet preflop unless I have a read or some data that could lead me to believe that it would be -EV.

sometimes a min raise from villain could be bad for us. i dont mind how you played this hand but im raising this flop most of the time and trying to get it in there.

[Nichomacheo]

Indiana,

What are you raising to?

He folds air, shoves sets, 99, JJ+ and probably the few flush draws in his range. Does your decision change if the flop was rainbow and not two tone? If you had 83 here, would you do the same thing? (only thing that changes is that 99,TT beat you now -- but you also pick up more outs).

[Indiana]

[ QUOTE ]
Indiana,

What are you raising to?

He folds air, shoves sets, 99, JJ+ and probably the few flush draws in his range. Does your decision change if the flop was rainbow and not two tone? If you had 83 here, would you do the same thing? (only thing that changes is that 99,TT beat you now -- but you also pick up more outs).

[/ QUOTE ]

nicho,

im raising to a little less than pot and prolly shoving most turns. and it doesnt really matter the texture of the board that you are detailing here. i kinda like how you played this hand by just calling pre flop, but i dont hate pushing pre either.

I'd like to hear what other posters think about the possibility of just flat calling on the flop in the face of incomplete reads here.

Indy

[Nichomacheo]

I think the texture matters a lot. With a draw heavy flop, there are a lot more hands that'll call your raise and be behind. With a rainbow flop, there are less poor hands that'll call you.

Poker brain teaser: If you just flipped over your hands and the best hand wins the pot immediately (no turn or river), would you rather have 86 or 22?

[Somekid]

As far as the hand goes, a lot of it is over my head (and I think I would try to get all in preflop).

But with the brain teaser, I'm thinking we want 86. 88 and 66 are both in the villain's range, so with 22 we could lose to a higher set. Whereas with 86 it's much much less likely they hold 88 or 66, and so we just have to worry about 22. Hopefully that's right.

[jay_shark]

[ QUOTE ]
This is something like the third hand, nothing as far as reads go.

Stacks are 1500/1500 with 10/20 blinds.

I raise from SB with TT (no club) to 60, he minraises to 100. Sometimes I'll re-raise, but I elected to call here. Any arguments for raising -- and if you do, what to?

Flop comes 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. He leads for 120 into the 200 pot. What's my move and why? If raise but not AI, what to and how do I respond to a 3-bet AI?

[/ QUOTE ]

I make it 300 to go pre-flop .

On the flop , I would definitely raise to protect my hand from over-cards . I would call $120 and raise another 300 or so . If you're pushed all in , you'd be getting about 2:1 odds on the call which makes the decision difficult . I don't think you can go wrong either way but I probably lean towards calling .

[tmcdmck]

th 86 vs 22 question has really got me thinking. obviously 22 is marignally better than 86 (one hand up), but having 22 is only better if your opponent has precisely 86 (which they are unlikely to have if you have 86 anyway, as there are less 8s and 6s left in the deck). the advantage of 86 is that it is less likely your opponent has a set of 8s or 6s, and if they have a setof 2s you still have outs.

*maths interlude*

there is one combination of 88, one of 66, and 3 of 22 your opponent could have if you have 86, making 5 set combinations total.

there are 3 combinations of 88 and 3 of 66 if you hold 22, meaning there are 6 set combinations total.

*end*

this means that 86 is actually behind fewer hands. *BUT* that alone does not make it a better hand. over pairs have much greater equity vs it, which obviously weakens it. 86 also performs worse vs draws. I cannot be bothered to do the maths, but i am pretty sure its obvious that the better equity that 22 has against one pair hands more than makes up for the ONE additional hand it is behind.

This leads me to conclude that 22 is a much nicer hand to have in this situation as you would expect.

[Nichomacheo]

tmc,

Equity wise, 22 is better, as you said. I said flipping the cards over without a turn or river, so your 5/6 analysis was what I was aiming at. Nice work.

Ryan and Jay,

Thanks for the input. I'll need to think it over some more.