200PLO slowplay flopped nut straight + freeroll?

Vinetou · #1 10-30-2007, 06:11 AM

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $2 BB (5 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($191.85)
Hero ($192)
SB ($198)
BB ($226.10)
UTG ($235.15)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to $7, 1 fold, BB calls $5.

Flop: ($15) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $14.25, BB raises to $38, Hero calls $23.75.

Only a few hands into the session, but villain seems solid. His checkraise told me that he either has the nuts, J7, maybe 76 or something like a set and I figured if I reraise, I have no chance of getting paid against anything but the nuts. Plus, I might wait for a safe turn before commiting my stack (because my read is not strong, just a feeling - he might stack off with a set here).

On the other hand, if he has the nuts, I miss on a good freerolling opportunity if a J or Q comes. It is not a lot of outs though.

I slowplayed because I figured if he has J7, which is likely, I might get a bet out of him on the river, but if I reraise now, he will fold. But in case he had the same hand as I did, I missed on a freeroll opportunity, so I am a little confused by that hand.

Would you reraise or call the flop?

Buzz · #2 10-30-2007, 08:37 AM

Vinetou - If Villain truly is a solid player (as you say he is) then if Villain has a straight, it's the nut straight (same as you). And in addition, a solid player has re-draws - maybe something like QJT9 or QJTT.

Another possibility is a solid Villain could have top set, maybe along with a non-nut straight.

If Villain has QJTT, then Villain is ahead. If Villain has QJT9, then you are ahead. Overall, there are more ways you can be ahead, but whoever is ahead, if Villain is truly the solid player you say he is, then it's close.

Since it is close, you're not missing a lot of value by not re-raising here. In addition, by backing off a bit you disguise your hand somewhat.

That considered, I'd just call. But raising seems all right too.

Although I'm primarily a fixed-limit Omaha-8 player, this situation is very familiar.

Buzz

CrushinFelt · #3 10-30-2007, 09:21 AM

Holy [censored] reraise pot

pete fabrizio · #4 10-30-2007, 09:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Vinetou - If Villain truly is a solid player (as you say he is) then if Villain has a straight, it's the nut straight (same as you). And in addition, a solid player has re-draws - maybe something like QJT9 or QJTT.

Another possibility is a solid Villain could have top set, maybe along with a non-nut straight.

If Villain has QJTT, then Villain is ahead. If Villain has QJT9, then you are ahead. Overall, there are more ways you can be ahead, but whoever is ahead, if Villain is truly the solid player you say he is, then it's close.

Since it is close, you're not missing a lot of value by not re-raising here. In addition, by backing off a bit you disguise your hand somewhat.

That considered, I'd just call. But raising seems all right too.

Although I'm primarily a fixed-limit Omaha-8 player, this situation is very familiar.

Buzz

[/ QUOTE ]

just calling here is very wrong.

mixmastermattyk · #5 10-30-2007, 10:05 AM

The very idea of a freeroll is that you get the money in with the nuts plus a better redraw. Get the money in, otherwise you ain't freerollin' [censored].

mjarqus · #6 10-30-2007, 10:06 AM

Reraise on the flop. I dont think solid villain pays more on the turn without same str8 or only with a set. On the flop he might be willing to gamble with set + weak straight.

RoundTower · #7 10-30-2007, 10:41 AM

I think your read is bad, your read suggests he is likely to have a smaller straight and only occasionally a set. If that is the case you should call and try to stack the smaller straight on the turn.

wazz · #8 10-30-2007, 10:45 AM

Just calling is fine here, your freeroll is only 4 direct outs. You can get most of your stack in on the turn anyway.

Buzz · #9 10-30-2007, 05:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
just calling here is very wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]Hi Pete -

He check-raised the second round bet!

He's not going anywhere!

Or is he? ..... If I'm missing something here, it's because I don't think he'll get away. I think he's hooked!

Assuming Hero just calls, there's about $90 in the pot and Hero has $147 left with two betting rounds to go.

What is the big rush?

How can it possibly be "very wrong" to just call?

(I don't mean to pick on you, Pete. Others have your same point of view. It's just that I respect your opinion and am wondering if I am somehow overlooking something that's obvious to an experienced player like you.)

Buzz

pete fabrizio · #10 10-30-2007, 06:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just calling here is very wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]Hi Pete -

He check-raised the second round bet!

He's not going anywhere!

Or is he? ..... If I'm missing something here, it's because I don't think he'll get away. I think he's hooked!

Assuming Hero just calls, there's about $90 in the pot and Hero has $147 left with two betting rounds to go.

What is the big rush?

How can it possibly be "very wrong" to just call?

(I don't mean to pick on you, Pete. Others have your same point of view. It's just that I respect your opinion and am wondering if I am somehow overlooking something that's obvious to an experienced player like you.)

Buzz

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a little surprised that so many people think this is a call. maybe it's closer than i thought, but generally my reasoning is: i usually put the c/r here on a set or the same straight (or air, but that will prob give up on turn anyway). if he has the same straight, i'd rather just get it in now while i have a freeroll and before the action gets killed on the turn. if he has a set, i'd rather just get it in now while i'm a big favorite and before the action gets killed on the turn. plus if i call and he leads a paired board on the turn, we're in a guessing game where I can make a big mistake one way or the other. also, i think some of you are overestimating the action that you're going to get from the raw end of the straight if he has it. there's a good chance that either an action killing card will come on the turn anyway, or that he slows down anyway. i think it's rare that he stacks off with the understraight, no matter how you play it.