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#1
10-28-2007, 11:04 PM
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Capping QQ in a 5bet max structure? not a simple...ALWAYS!
Reading Aaron's QQ hand in the NC thread got me to thinking avout this again. Haven't thought much about this, but given Vegas' 5-bet cap, what are we looking at for a capping range? QQ+? I think here more than ever, we really need to consider the 4-bet range of our opponent. In my Bay101 game the other night, the guy to my right kept showing me his hand very often after I had already folded. I watched him limp AKo, AKs(x2), and TT. So already, I knew his raising range was super tight and I actually folded JJ UTG+1 to his UTG raise. I'd be willing to wager that this guys 4bet range is AA and AA only. How many other people are going to 4bet AK or TT/JJ?
This may sound a bit nitty to some, but 5-betting QQ in many 15/30 games is going to be bad news in many scenarios. Keep in mind that I am not referring to Aaron's hand in any sense, it just got me thinking about something I had in my mind a little while ago and just sort of forgot about it. I guess the biggest thing as I mentioned already is that we really need to be playing the player here more than just our cards. Many places lift the betting cap when HU, sometimes even preflop. So just how many bets would you put in PF w/ saw QQ or KK if there was no cap. Also understand that the ranges vastly expand the higher in limits you go, especially live. 
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#2
10-28-2007, 11:49 PM
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Re: Capping QQ in a 5bet max structure? not a simple...ALWAYS!
[ QUOTE ]
This may sound a bit nitty to some, but 5-betting QQ in many 15/30 games is going to be bad news in many scenarios. [/ QUOTE ] You know, I thought about this before I capped, but with 5 players in the pot, it feels like there's too much value, even against AA/KK/AKs to not cap. I don't think I would have capped HU or maybe 3-way with QQ (especially OOP).
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#3
10-28-2007, 11:53 PM
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Re: Capping QQ in a 5bet max structure? not a simple...ALWAYS!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] This may sound a bit nitty to some, but 5-betting QQ in many 15/30 games is going to be bad news in many scenarios. [/ QUOTE ] You know, I thought about this before I capped, but with 5 players in the pot, it feels like there's too much value, even against AA/KK/AKs to not cap. I don't think I would have capped HU or maybe 3-way with QQ (especially OOP). [/ QUOTE ] yeah I agree... that's why I wanted to point out that I was not really referring to your post.. it just got me thinking.
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#4
10-29-2007, 08:28 AM
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Re: Capping QQ in a 5bet max structure? not a simple...ALWAYS!
live poker does not equal online poker
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#6
10-29-2007, 10:53 AM
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Re: Capping QQ in a 5bet max structure? not a simple...ALWAYS!
i'm giving a summary of your op [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#7
10-29-2007, 11:17 AM
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Re: Capping QQ in a 5bet max structure? not a simple...ALWAYS!
I'm also interested in another live game rule.
It's where there's no cap on the betting if the betting gets HU... regardless of whether or not the street started with more than 2 players. In other words, you're on the river, and it goes: villain bets, you raise, fish cc's, villain 3 bets... do you 4-bet with very good but non-nut made hands? If the fish folds, villain could 5-bet you with the nuts... --- Personally I feel that's a dumb rule... you should be able to have the cap enforced if the street started with 3 players, but whatever.
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#8
10-29-2007, 11:36 AM
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Re: Capping QQ in a 5bet max structure? not a simple...ALWAYS!
[ QUOTE ]
Personally I feel that's a dumb rule... you should be able to have the cap enforced if the street started with 3 players, but whatever. [/ QUOTE ] Uh, maybe you should just stop betting?
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#9
10-29-2007, 12:28 PM
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Re: Capping QQ in a 5bet max structure? not a simple...ALWAYS!
[ QUOTE ]
I'm also interested in another live game rule. It's where there's no cap on the betting if the betting gets HU... regardless of whether or not the street started with more than 2 players. In other words, you're on the river, and it goes: villain bets, you raise, fish cc's, villain 3 bets... do you 4-bet with very good but non-nut made hands? If the fish folds, villain could 5-bet you with the nuts... --- Personally I feel that's a dumb rule... you should be able to have the cap enforced if the street started with 3 players, but whatever. [/ QUOTE ] This rule varies from room to room. Some require that the street starts HU, others only care that it is now HU. Why would you want this enforced? It makes absolutely no sense IMO. You, as the greater thinking player, should want the betting open as much as possible so that you can crush people that play things like the 6th nut boat for 8 bets. You should also realize when to slow down. A good thinking player should want all possible ways to take advantage of his/her opponents poor play/thinking. Would you really want the cap in place if you had quads vs nut boat, or straight flush over Ace high flush?
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#10
10-29-2007, 06:03 PM
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Re: Capping QQ in a 5bet max structure? not a simple...ALWAYS!
[ QUOTE ]
Would you really want the cap in place if you had quads vs nut boat, or straight flush over Ace high flush? [/ QUOTE ] Yes true, but also I think that is probably neither here nor there. It would be similar to playing a short-stack NL strategy vs big-stack. We could imagine a limit game where there is no cap. This affects how we play. It may change the way we play thinner draws depending on the aggression of our opponents (i.e. the rammer/jammer game).
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