Some bluffs¡

mustmuck · #1 10-25-2007, 11:01 PM

My game is fairly off at the moment (by which I mean I'm on a downswing) which has me finding myself in positions I don't usually get into. I'm honestly not too sure how retarded some of this is. They could just be unnecessarily aggressive. These are the biggest bluffs I ran today. Obviously none of them are my standard line for the given situations.

It seems like the more passive approach would probably be best in the first two.

1) Villain is a TAG (on the tighter side). Do I fold out enough here? I'm calling a shove.

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$4
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $1371
UTG+1: $406
CO: $956.70
Button: $865.10
SB: $364
BB: $400

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero raises to $14, 2 folds, Button raises to $48, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($102, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($102, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $72, Hero raises to $242 (there's a little over 500 left to go in after this)

2) Villain is yet another tighter than usual TAG. I'm pretty sure he'll bet the flop w/100% of his range. Again I'm going to call if he shoves (this one seems pretty close though). I decided to float the flop, but should I bet when I draw good on the turn?

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$4
4 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $80
Hero: $615.10
SB: $140
BB: $840.60

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG (poster) checks, Hero raises to $18, SB folds, BB raises to $56, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($118, 2 players)
BB bets $90, Hero calls.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($298, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $150 (there's a little over 300 less to go in after this)

3) Villain is on the looser side of TAG (like 22/20 or something). I'm pretty sure he has a flush here. I intended to make this play when I called the turn (obviously I could have some outs too). Usually I'd just fold.

Side question: what if he checked the river? That seems like the worst situation, as I can't seem him c/f this river?

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$4
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $400
Hero: $537.80
Button: $1086.30
SB: $546.30
BB: $1881.80

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero raises to $14, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($30, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $28, BB calls.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($86, 2 players)
BB bets $65, Hero calls.

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($216, 2 players)
BB bets $145, Hero raises all-in $430.8

mythrilfox · #2 10-26-2007, 12:13 AM

Hand 1: I like postflop, not really sure about pf though, i think i'd just fold most of the time unless he has some gaping holes postflop. could see myself being totally "wrong" on this one but you're pretty much calling pf here with 20% equity against his range, not really sure you can make it up enough postflop.

Flop in hand 2 is gross. just b/c he bets the flop w/ 100% of his range doesn't mean his range doesn't have you CRUSHED and is not folding. i'd check the turn like always and play pretty straightforward on the river prolly. he probably has QdQx KdKx and isn't folding.

Jesus, fold turn in hand 3. these hands are really, really spewy. also, you put him on a flush on a relatively undangerous board and proceed to try and bluff him off it??? wtf

mustmuck · #3 10-26-2007, 12:30 AM

Hand 1 his pf range is definitely wider than QQ+, although I know I said he was tight. AK/QQ+ might not be far off though. I called because we're deep, but this could be wrong, esp OOP.

H2 you just fold at all opportunities? Is it an option between folding preflop or calling and raising any flop (rather than floating)? My problem preflop of course is that AQ is a monster compared to my range for raising here.

I know the turn is a fold in H3. I'm wondering if the river bluff can be at all +EV. You say the board isn't dangerous, do you mean you'd like the 3 or 5 to be a T or a K before you'd try something like this?

mythrilfox · #4 10-26-2007, 12:44 AM

hand 2, it doesnt really matter what your raising range is there, all that matters is his reraising range, which is sufficiently small. i know youre in a squeeze spot etc etc but his 3betting amt is not conducive to a resteal and if hes on the tighter side of tag i doubt he is getting imaginative here. i'd prob call pf but you have to let it go after that.

hand 3, by not dangerous i mean that if he has a flush he is losing to aj/aa/33/jj, which dont make up that many hand combos, so he is probably calling you.

mustmuck · #5 10-26-2007, 07:59 AM

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hand 2, it doesnt really matter what your raising range is there, all that matters is his reraising range, which is sufficiently small. i know youre in a squeeze spot etc etc but his 3betting amt is not conducive to a resteal and if hes on the tighter side of tag i doubt he is getting imaginative here. i'd prob call pf but you have to let it go after that.

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You're right of course, except that these day even the tighter side of tag 3bets a lot of hands. I don't feel like I can just fold AQ to a single reraise but I can't see it being profitable to call either. I really suck in 3bet pots.

JackAll · #6 10-26-2007, 08:38 AM

I suck at bluffing, but here goes:

1. great if he 3-bets very wide pf. other pf sux. turn looks good. EDIT: Oh, you called cuz you were deep? I really don't like pf then. OOP with a draw is bad enough, now ur oop with a draw and ur deep.
2. pf and flop call looks kinda gay. I guess you kinda rep 99/TT decently tho. I don't see much point though when you can just fold (or 4-bet vs right opponenets) pf.
3. I don't see any point to this. This flop looks good to check behind on the flop with and get some value if he is aggro too.

BobboFitos · #7 10-26-2007, 05:58 PM

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hand 3, by not dangerous i mean that if he has a flush he is losing to aj/aa/33/jj, which dont make up that many hand combos, so he is probably calling you.

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"probably" calling??? more like 99% calling. If he has trips, he's calling. If he has AK or AQ, that too might call.

mustmuck · #8 10-26-2007, 10:54 PM

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first relating to your "Obviously none of them are my standard line for the given situations." remark: i think that's a bit of a problem when running bluffs if you want to make them believable?

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Actually, I meant that I'd usually have something closer to what I'm representing, rather than the lines themseves.

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1. pf is bad here, plain and simple. fold to the 3bet. In fact, this is a sizable mistake.

The turn c/r is too fancy; lead at the pot. If he raises, stick it in. (Depending on raise size)

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Yes, you're probably right about preflop. Wasn't there a thread where a lot of 3b concepts were talked about? Anybody have a link? I still suck at three bets.

Since the hand I realized that b/3b is probably better here because he'll have a pair and be facing a 100+BB bet. If we check, is c/c better than the c/r?

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2. this time pf is fine, sometimes i would 4bet/felt. on the turn given stacks, check behind. ace high could be good, you dont want to be shoved in, and you actually could get paid off on the river if you hit (bc it might make HIM a flush, too) this is abnormal as most of the time w/ 4 diamonds there is no action..

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Yes, I think I got this one backwards

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I dont really agree, but if this is the case, your river play is really abysmal. Making people fold hands stronger then 1 pair is what puts people into the crazy/broke house.

fwiw I'd probably call the river, but a fold is better then a raise. Also, play up to the river was solid.

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This I don't really understand and I don't think I agree with it. I did feel that villain was capable of folding a flush on a paired board. However, I'm more thinking of you wanting to call the river ... I can't see how we're ever good here. If you don't think he has a flush that often, then surely you would think the push is even better than I do?

BobboFitos · #9 10-26-2007, 05:57 PM

1. pf is bad here, plain and simple. fold to the 3bet. In fact, this is a sizable mistake.

The turn c/r is too fancy; lead at the pot. If he raises, stick it in. (Depending on raise size)

2. this time pf is fine, sometimes i would 4bet/felt. on the turn given stacks, check behind. ace high could be good, you dont want to be shoved in, and you actually could get paid off on the river if you hit (bc it might make HIM a flush, too) this is abnormal as most of the time w/ 4 diamonds there is no action..

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I'm pretty sure he has a flush here.

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I dont really agree, but if this is the case, your river play is really abysmal. Making people fold hands stronger then 1 pair is what puts people into the crazy/broke house.

fwiw I'd probably call the river, but a fold is better then a raise. Also, play up to the river was solid.