Turn play w KK oc's

Tugg · #1 10-25-2007, 11:58 AM

Live 4-8
Villain is in sb and is LAG and has been on a huge rush, he's up over $500 in 3 hours. I've butted heads with him a few times and shown down strong hands and he's made a few comments about how tight I play.

utg,and 2 mp limp, hero raises on the button w K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] sb,bb and limpers call (12sb)

flop 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

its checked to hero who bets, sb c/r's its folded to hero who 3 bets , sb calls.(9bb)

turn is Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
hero bets, sb c/r's, hero?
whats my play here and on river?

Yads · #2 10-25-2007, 12:17 PM

you're screwed, call and fold river if you don't improve to 2 pair+

mntndrew · #3 10-25-2007, 12:46 PM

A better defined read on level of LAGginess would help. I've seen players take shots at me with air if I've been card dead for awhile because they think they can make you fold anything. I think you're toast, too, but I want to show this down.

One Outer · #4 10-25-2007, 12:59 PM

I fully expect to beat here but the board is so dry you have to show down. And I suppose he's a LAG and he'll show you some weird semibluff often enough to make it worth your while.

Bob T. · #5 10-25-2007, 01:02 PM

You got one pair. You could be ahead, but you also could be behind. I call this checkraise, and call again on the river.

If the river is an apparent blank, and he checks again, then you have a tough problem. If it won't send you spiralling on tilt, then I bet again, and pay off his checkraise again.

By the way, get a seat on his left, when you can.

One Outer · #6 10-25-2007, 01:03 PM

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By the way, get a seat on his left, when you can.

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I second that. It will loosely double your expectation.

Lethe · #7 10-25-2007, 01:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You got one pair. You could be ahead, but you also could be behind. I call this checkraise, and call again on the river.

If the river is an apparent blank, and he checks again, then you have a tough problem. If it won't send you spiralling on tilt, then I bet again, and pay off his checkraise again.

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?????

Betting and calling a checkraise on the river would be a disaster. You realize we only beat a bluff, right?

Let's see... checkraised on the flop, and he calls our 3bet. Now he's checkraising again on the turn. Unless this guy is a maniac I have to think we're behind here. Put me down for calling the turn and folding the river UI.

mntndrew · #8 10-25-2007, 02:15 PM

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Betting and calling a checkraise on the river would be a disaster. You realize we only beat a bluff, right?

Let's see... checkraised on the flop, and he calls our 3bet. Now he's checkraising again on the turn. Unless this guy is a maniac I have to think we're behind here. Put me down for calling the turn and folding the river UI.

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Plausible scenario: LAG puts you on overcards on the flop, c/r's you to steal the pot. He hits a Q on the turn and figures he's pulled ahead of all your medium pocket pairs.

He could be super-LAG and c/r semi-bluff with just a straight draw or smaller pair. You want to trust your read that no one would c/r without two pair or better, but I'd say that against a bad LAG, you have to show this down getting 6.5:1.

One Outer · #9 10-25-2007, 03:29 PM

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Put me down for calling the turn and folding the river UI.

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Weak sauce. Our opponent is a lag and the board is uncoordinated. I feel this is QJ or whatnot donkbetting the flop and pairing up almost as often as we're beat. His range is huge.

I don't get why people are saying this. Yes, his line is strong. But it's a LAG! The board is great for our hand, it's heads up and the pot is big. There is no good reason to fold here.

Yads · #10 10-25-2007, 03:43 PM

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Put me down for calling the turn and folding the river UI.

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Weak sauce. Our opponent is a lag and the board is uncoordinated.

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This is precisely the reason why you should fold, because you only beat air or 67/34. Unless this guy is a complete idiot, he's not going to get fancy in a multi way pot with just air. You've also shown quite a bit of strength.