pre flop raise amount

[drunk.hole]

Say I play 25NL. Can anyone explain to me the difference for making your standard preflop raise a certain amount when you are the first raiser and there are no limpers yet?

Some people say 75cents.Some people 85cents. Some people 1.00$

Its my theory that if you raise 75cents its better than 85cents or a dollar. Because if they are going call 75cents they will call 1 dollar. But considering all the times you have to shut down post flop, you would be saving yourself money long term by raising to 25 instead of a dollar.

If I am wrong please let me know, and explain why.thank you

[basementproject]

It all depends really. Some people advocate always raising 3xBB. Some say 3xBB + 1 BB for every limper.

Personally, in late position for me it's 3xBB unless I have a nuts hand and know I'll get callers, then I up it a bit. In early position, I don't necessarily want huge multiway pots with non-nuts hands, so I'm always raising a bit bigger.

It's a bad trap to fall into raising the same amount every time. Vary your play a bit, don't be too predictable.

[drunk.hole]

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It's a bad trap to fall into raising the same amount every time. Vary your play a bit, don't be too predictable.

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Isnt it better to raise the same ammount everyhnad so that you can disguise your big hands? I mean if you raise 75cents 90% of the time and raise 1.50 when you have a big hand it makes it kinda obvious

[pzhon]

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Isnt it better to raise the same ammount everyhnad so that you can disguise your big hands? I mean if you raise 75cents 90% of the time and raise 1.50 when you have a big hand it makes it kinda obvious

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That would, but that is not the only way to raise different amounts with different hands.

When you limp some of the time, and raise some of the time, you are already giving up some information, but the benefits are supposed to be worth it. The same is true for varying your raise size intelligently based on the hand you hold.

Harrington On Hold'em covers a strategy for raising different amounts with different hands which gives away very little usable information. It suggests raising to 3 BB some of the time when you have AA, and to 5 BB some of the time when you have AA, and the same with JJ, but with different probabilities. This means your opponents may know that you are more likely to have JJ than AA when you raise to 5 BB, but you might have AA, and so it is hard for them to act on that information. PNL also describes benefits of raising different amounts with different hands, although PNL mainly assumes that your opponents are bad and won't catch on, which describes the vast majority of players in all but the toughest games.

You don't have to very your raise size based on your hand to be a winning player. You don't have to make any bluff raises to be a winning player. However, it is a tool which an expert can use to good effect, both in cash games and tournaments.

[basementproject]

Probably important to note that, at micro stakes, the above strategies will probably be useless, as no players down there are going to be paying attention to betting patterns, and they'll probably call everything anyway. No use stressing over bet size @ 5NL.

[2p2J]

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That would, but that is not the only way to raise different amounts with different hands.

When you limp some of the time, and raise some of the time, you are already giving up some information, but the benefits are supposed to be worth it. The same is true for varying your raise size intelligently based on the hand you hold.

Harrington On Hold'em covers a strategy for raising different amounts with different hands which gives away very little usable information. It suggests raising to 3 BB some of the time when you have AA, and to 5 BB some of the time when you have AA, and the same with JJ, but with different probabilities. This means your opponents may know that you are more likely to have JJ than AA when you raise to 5 BB, but you might have AA, and so it is hard for them to act on that information. PNL also describes benefits of raising different amounts with different hands, although PNL mainly assumes that your opponents are bad and won't catch on, which describes the vast majority of players in all but the toughest games.

You don't have to very your raise size based on your hand to be a winning player. You don't have to make any bluff raises to be a winning player. However, it is a tool which an expert can use to good effect, both in cash games and tournaments.

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TY for the information. Great post.

[RyverRat]

'It's a bad trap to fall into raising the same amount every time. Vary your play a bit, don't be too predictable. '

i disagree with this. making the same bet gives away no imformation at all. making a calculated bet based on hand strength and position preflop could give away information. varying your play by betting random amounts could be the same as betting the same amount as long as it is random.

Obv post flop is a different matter.

thoughts ?

[basementproject]

Who says the calculated bet is based on strength? Obv. you're not going to start raising 5BB whenever you have [QQ,AA], and 3BB all other hands in your range, this would be ridiculous. You want to vary your betting in such a way that throws villain off of putting a range on you or discovering your betting pattern.

Yes, you should keep a standard bet. But you don't need to stick to it ALL the time, and in my view, you shouldn't- for no good mathematical reason, purely psychological.

If you're constantly making the same size bet, it's going to be pretty easy for your opp to put you on a range of hands, based on boards/postflop play and what you show down.

If, say after 4 orbits of doing nothing but 3xBB betting, you switch it up to 3xBB+1BB/caller, it's going to be kind of hard for opponents to know what to make of it. In the same vein, if you just raise 1BB after a few orbits of standard betting, it's going to throw them off too.

All I'm saying is that every now and then you should throw a weird/odd/not regular sized bet into your routine, as it'll help you project the loose/unpredictable image you want to have at a table.

[thrasher789]

These posts are really good for sure, but recently I read this article from Phil Gordon and liked it's ideas alot on disguising while still varying your bet size preflop, I think it applies well to either tourney or cash play so go ahead and read it and tell me your opinion on it...

http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/pro-tip...on&tip=120

[basementproject]

Agree with the article 100%. Seems to reiterate alot of things said in this thread.