Razz - playing the smooth hand

[Praxising]

OK, have at me. I know the guy in Seat 8 looks like he must have A32, but he was playing real junk and thought a 9 was a hand. And I only reraised him on 3rd to get the 8 to fold. Which, of course, he didn't, because he thought a 9 was a hand, also.

Razz ($0.50/$1.00), Ante $0.05, Bring-In $0.25 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises___raises___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls___calls___calls
Seat 7: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises___raises

4th Street - (13.30 SB)

Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets

5th Street - (7.65 BB)

Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises___raises
Seat 8: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets___raises___calls

6th Street - (15.65 BB)

Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 8: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

River - (17.65 BB)

Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 8: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___calls $0.60 and is all-in

[disco_stu1978]

umm....maybe I play razz really really poorly....but shouldn't there be a lot less bets in this hand?

I prob call 3rd, call the re-raise on 5th and the rest looks fine to me.

[Mathew82]

I do not like third street AT ALL. Hands like 567 vs 8A2 - the 8A2 usually becomes a favourite over 567 in a multiway pot even though is an underdog heads up. I don't mind the original raise but with this ante structure, I would of leaned more towards limping and calling.

Fourth street is a call because of all the bets that went in on third. However you would still call but it would be more marginal if you had played the hand rationally at third.

Fifth street is bad. The action on third suggests even a poor player would have a good starting hand. There are two 2s out and also two 8s out - meaning that he is extremely unlikely to be paired and your now pumping the pot with the worst of it.

6th street, you get a lucky break and you improve and he finds the last eight to pair his hand. Your now favourite, so betting is correct.

7th - you don't improve, perhaps he has but he's going to call with the 8 lo anyways for the reduced price of 60c so the bet is correct.

[roggles]

Absolutely awful. Bad players get good cards too you know. No matter how bad he is, he probably isn't raising without three cards smaller than 6. This whole hand looks like massive tilt on your part.

Also, raising to isolate isn't that important in Razz; it's not draw

[Andy B]

[ QUOTE ]
Bad players get good cards too you know.

[/ QUOTE ]

You put in too much action on third and fifth.

[RustyBrooks]

Fifth especially looks bad there. A single raise can be good since people often bet when their board looks good. When he re-raises he says he can beat an 86, and you don't have even that.

[ChipsAhoya]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, raising to isolate isn't that important in Razz; it's not draw

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not true at all, raising to isolate is SUPER important in Razz. TT, one of the more weak-tight players on the forum (by admission and jest), routinely advocates raising to isolate hands that are weaker then those he advocates just calling when isolation isn't a factor. You want people OUT of your pot in razz.

-ChipsAhoya

[roggles]

Raising to isolate when you don't have the best hand in a game without position? How does that not become costly?

What is the advantage of this, how do you play 4th? My strategy more or less consists of folding if I brick 4th and my opponent doesn't, and I'm guessing if I've put in extra raises to isolate this changes.

[ChipsAhoya]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising to isolate when you don't have the best hand in a game without position? How does that not become costly?

What is the advantage of this, how do you play 4th? My strategy more or less consists of folding if I brick 4th and my opponent doesn't, and I'm guessing if I've put in extra raises to isolate this changes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I said in my last post not to isolate here. If there's a double bet on 3rd then yes, you call if he improves and you don't.

Sometimes at the higher limits you'll get whipsawed if you have a 7 and the other two players have better. Even if they don't fold you still make money on the bets going in even if you're in 2nd place although this isn't *always* the case. Here it isn't because the 8 isn't that much worse than you.

-ChipsAhoya

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, raising to isolate isn't that important in Razz; it's not draw

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not true at all, raising to isolate is SUPER important in Razz. TT, one of the more weak-tight players on the forum (by admission and jest), routinely advocates raising to isolate hands that are weaker then those he advocates just calling when isolation isn't a factor. You want people OUT of your pot in razz.

-ChipsAhoya

[/ QUOTE ]

to clarify - I advocate doing this when it will work. for example 3rd street in this hand - yuck - that jam is sour [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] All the OP does is inflate the size of the pot, it wont serve any other purpose.

PS: I think its hysterical that I have been branded weak tight, I get a kick out of it! I prefer the term just tight, but I LOVE it when people think I am weak - its fantastic for my game [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]