Caught between turn donk and flop raiser

kitaristi0 · #1 10-13-2007, 05:10 PM

SB is 61/7 52 WTSD 0.73 Turn aggro over 180 hands. I don't remember seeing him donk before.
UTG is 30/20/1.81 over 265 hands.

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, Button folds, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero

mvoss · #2 10-13-2007, 05:12 PM

Why are you donking the flop?

I think you can safely fold the turn.

kitaristi0 · #3 10-13-2007, 05:15 PM

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Why are you donking the flop?

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Hoping UTG raises to charge the remaining two players on a drawy board. Is this not good?

Oink · #4 10-13-2007, 05:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why are you donking the flop?

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Hoping UTG raises to charge the remaining two players on a drawy board. Is this not good?

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What worse hand do you think UTG is raising for you?

If he is only raising only better hands should you use this option to "protect" your hand?

In game theory there is a new thing going where researchers examine games in which the players do not appreciate the connection between other player's strength and their chosen action. Whenever I see an argumnent like OP's I think of that.

Stealthy · #5 10-13-2007, 05:23 PM

I like the flop lead for the reasons stated. We want to get this heads up and hope that UTG will do this for us.

Turn looks like an easy fold (if folding top pair in a big pot can ever be easy) The risk of UTG raising behind you is another good reason to fold.

mvoss · #6 10-13-2007, 05:23 PM

You have a mediocre hand OOP in a pot that's not really big and this flop isn't that drawy. You're not looking to get raised here imo.

mvoss · #7 10-13-2007, 05:24 PM

Why do people just assume that villain will raise worse hands than their own mediocre one here?

Stealthy · #8 10-13-2007, 05:46 PM

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Why do people just assume that villain will raise worse hands than their own mediocre one here?

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Does that even matter overly? If he raises the others out then we either c/c, c/c turn and river or c/c, b/f. Sometimes he will raise worse so we will go to showdown anyway. Also if we pick up 3 calls then we can assume that we are likely holding the best hand although we will have a good number of outs to dodge without a clear idea of what they are.

Just consider the alternatives as well. Both CR on flop and CC hardly look inviting.

frenchpignouf · #9 10-13-2007, 05:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why are you donking the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hoping UTG raises to charge the remaining two players on a drawy board. Is this not good?

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Usually UTG raises when you are beat with just 3 outs. Maybe you can do this play with something like 87, it can be interresting to pay one sb to be HU with around 25% of equity.

JSmith2007 · #10 10-13-2007, 05:13 PM

Pretty easy fold. I think you're rarely good here and you're only drawing to a king, so 2 outs, probably only one though assuming either the SB/UTG holds a king and the opposite has an 8 or other set.