25NL JJ faces donkbet

RapidEvolution · #1 10-12-2007, 12:03 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG+1 ($24.65)
MP1 ($38.60)
Hero ($36.30)
CO ($5.35)
Button ($14.20)
SB ($24.75)
BB ($12.85)
UTG ($6.10)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.5, 2 folds, SB calls $1.40, 1 fold, UTG calls $1.25, UTG+1 calls $1.25.

Flop: ($6.25) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $4, Hero?

These pot-sized donk bets are starting to piss me off. lol Any real raise is going to commit me on the flop, I still have action behind me, and calling gets me nowhere. Flop is pretty damn dry, and I've got no reads on villain. Is this a fold or a raise?

rachkane · #2 10-12-2007, 12:07 PM

Fold with my tail between my legs.

Artsemis · #3 10-12-2007, 12:24 PM

NL25? I'd say AT is very very likely with the limp/call line from utg. I actually don't see anything else the average player would make that move on except maybe 44 or 88 but at nl25 that's almost always a c/r in that spot.

That said, I'd be scared. I might be ahead but I'd rather wait for a better spot and be more sure of it, but I'm weak [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

RapidEvolution · #4 10-12-2007, 12:29 PM

I could very well be ahead of UTG+1, but I've gotta be wary of UTG who also open-limped/called. If I raise, either UTG or UTG+1 could shove and then I'd be fooked. I folded here, but SB shoved. I'll post results later if people want.

Artsemis · #5 10-12-2007, 01:32 PM

By the way I disagree that getting half your stack in is comitted. I personally would make it $12 or so and I could still fold to a raise, though this is pretty borderline I think.

SMACK BOOTY · #6 10-12-2007, 02:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Fold with my tail between my legs

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad to see others think folding here is OK. Lately with all of these " I poooosh" threads being posted, it seems like I'm turning too weak tight in my old age. I've been stacked so many times with TPTK or overpair that I'm getting real cautious about these situations, particularly online. As others have noted, the only real draw is an OESD, and villian would have had to call a raise with crappy hand OOP.
I agree with you, if you make a decent raise, you are pot commited, so now is the time plan the hand. I hate calling because if an A, K, or Q comes and there is action, then you will have a really funny look on your face.
To summarize, IMO, WITHOUT READS, I think
FOLDING>RAISING>CALLING.

Johnes Benjamin · #7 10-12-2007, 03:06 PM

A lot of times I am folding here.
I think calling isn't a bad option either though. You still have position and I would not right off the bat be afraid of overs.
I don't agree with checking the turn though, which someone suggested. I think if turn is checked to you, especially if its HU, I would bet it and determine once and for all where you stand. If AT fired flop he could easily call turn for 2/3 pot bet, people are pretty bad sometimes.
I would even make a thin value bet on the river sometimes if checked to, depending on texture of the board.

ElectricWaffles · #8 10-12-2007, 12:13 PM

I tend to assume somebody who limps/calls preflop has a small pair in the hole or SCs (I'm coming from NL5 and NL10 perspectives). There's a double gutshot draw possible and the dreaded set, I'd put that in an 'unknowns' range.

The donk bet kinda looks like a set to be honest, but it might also be a pair?

Personally I think i'd raise it a little, but I wouldn't consider myself commited.

Not sure if that's correct!

RapidEvolution · #9 10-12-2007, 12:21 PM

Even if I raise half the pot here (raising it up to $11 I believe) I've committed myself by putting half the stack in. Anything smaller doesn't commit me, and lays odds for crap like J9 and 97 (either ahead of me or behind me) to correctly call. I agree that this is usually a small PP but donking into a raiser AND 2 other people seems pretty strong.

ActionStan · #10 10-12-2007, 01:42 PM

I raise here pretty much all the time. If nothing else, you learn if UTG+1 donk bets his weak or his strong hands.

That said, I think calling is ok too. You have position. If you get raised from behind, you can let the hand go pretty cheaply. The OOP players are more likely to fold than raise. Often times you will be able to check the turn and pick off a bet from a T on the river.

If you pick off a bet from a T, it gives you more credibility to float c-bets later when you don't have a hand.