i might be taking this value thing too far

terp · #1 10-10-2007, 03:43 AM

$100nl, six-handed
eff stacks: $100

i raise A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] utg to $3.50, only the BB calls.

no real reads yet (few orbits in, but seems TAG based on use of position and aggression.)

flop
3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

he leads for pot fairly quickly. anyone raise here? i ended up calling.

turn
5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
he c/c $18 into ~$22

river 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
he leads $42. normally i'd call or fold, but...he has $30 behind....shove it like it's hot?

ofishstix · #2 10-10-2007, 03:46 AM

shove looks good.
edit: at 4am while writing a paper, i have trouble reading. i didnt see the board double paired, so i would just call. id still sorta want to raise though :/

Isura · #3 10-10-2007, 03:46 AM

Thing is he has to have a hand that can valuebet this strong that you are ahead of. I don't see that from a tag here. Is he making this bet with 88? I doubt it. Just call..

Noam Chomsky · #4 10-10-2007, 09:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Thing is he has to have a hand that can valuebet this strong that you are ahead of. I don't see that from a tag here. Is he making this bet with 88? I doubt it. Just call..

[/ QUOTE ]

So we have a bluff catcher and should consider folding?

KhalynYohrk · #5 10-10-2007, 09:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thing is he has to have a hand that can valuebet this strong that you are ahead of. I don't see that from a tag here. Is he making this bet with 88? I doubt it. Just call..

[/ QUOTE ]

So we have a bluff catcher and should consider folding?

[/ QUOTE ]

Noone is folding this ever, question is to raise him AI for 32 more or just call. I think vs unknown I'd call but with a read I'd shove, but I bet its pretty close wither way with either one being good. He could easily have hearts as well. Raise flop plz.

JFsports · #6 10-10-2007, 10:19 AM

I would fold pre, and I would def prefer to get it in on the flop or turn, so raise flop. As played I'd call

Nielsio · #7 10-10-2007, 11:47 AM

I'm having such a hard time putting him on a hand (that you beat) besides lower flushes. I don't think this is an easy call at all.

Noam Chomsky · #8 10-10-2007, 03:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thing is he has to have a hand that can valuebet this strong that you are ahead of. I don't see that from a tag here. Is he making this bet with 88? I doubt it. Just call..

[/ QUOTE ]

So we have a bluff catcher and should consider folding?

[/ QUOTE ]

Noone is folding this ever, question is to raise him AI for 32 more or just call. I think vs unknown I'd call but with a read I'd shove, but I bet its pretty close wither way with either one being good. He could easily have hearts as well. Raise flop plz.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. I understand the question quite well.
Do you understand mine?

Are you just calling because we have the nut flush or are you calling because you think we're ahead a high percentage of the time?

If it's the latter:

1. How often do you expect to see a bluff?

2. How often do you expect to see him value betting a worse hand?

Which leads to 3:

3. How often is he value betting a worse hand that folds getting 6-1 or whatever.

I think this is a pretty rare spot where we're not bluffing but shoving > folding > calling

JBeef · #9 10-10-2007, 03:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thing is he has to have a hand that can valuebet this strong that you are ahead of. I don't see that from a tag here. Is he making this bet with 88? I doubt it. Just call..

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that is certainly what he wants you to think......he has either 77 or a flush here. There are three ways to have 77, and a like ten ways to have a worse flush. He is likely calling with both. It is a thin edge to push but shove away terp, shove away.

Isura · #10 10-10-2007, 04:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thing is he has to have a hand that can valuebet this strong that you are ahead of. I don't see that from a tag here. Is he making this bet with 88? I doubt it. Just call..

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that is certainly what he wants you to think......he has either 77 or a flush here. There are three ways to have 77, and a like ten ways to have a worse flush. He is likely calling with both. It is a thin edge to push but shove away terp, shove away.

[/ QUOTE ]

You aren't playing aejones