TT hand with PF raisers

piggity · #1 10-08-2007, 10:32 AM

Live 40 game. I am a new face to a table full of regulars (as I often am). I may have a loose calldown-monkey-ish image due to my two previous plays (one was a button/blind steal situation, and the other was a sick read on a live tell (yeah, right)).

Anyway I open TdTc in MP, get three-bet by a TAG next in, and an unknown four bets right after him. Three of us to the flop of:

Q95r

I check, 3-bettor bets, 4-better calls, and I ... am not sure what to do getting 15.5:1 so I call.

Turn 9, now two clubs on board.

I check, 3-bettor bets, 4-bettor folds, and I ... can't think of a hand that I beat so fold.

Any comments appreciated.

DeuceKicker · #2 10-08-2007, 12:08 PM

Do what everyone else does: Put him on AK and call

Crusher19 · #3 10-08-2007, 12:19 PM

AK virtually the only hand you can beat here in a standard lineup. is there any chance of the four bettor having 7s or 8s? if the answer is no id say folding is the play

piggity · #4 10-08-2007, 12:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
AK virtually the only hand you can beat here in a standard lineup.

[/ QUOTE ]

But is AK really betting again into two PF raisers on the turn (unless it's exactly AcKc)?

[ QUOTE ]
is there any chance of the four bettor having 7s or 8s? if the answer is no id say folding is the play

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The four bettor had already folded by the time it was back to me on the turn.

DeuceKicker · #5 10-08-2007, 12:55 PM

Jeez. Sorry, I totally spaced out on the action. I missed the 4-bet and thought the 3-bettor was betting with a blind calling along.

With a 4-bet behind you, and the TAG still betting, just fold.

Crusher19 · #6 10-08-2007, 01:33 PM

i spaced out on the action too. the 3 bettor has tens beat here just about always. with the 4 bettor folding the turn its likely that he had AK which makes that even less likely the hand the 3 bettor has. pretty easy fold most of the time.

Jazzy3113 · #7 10-08-2007, 02:24 PM

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Do what everyone else does: Put him on AK and call

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emerson · #8 10-08-2007, 01:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Live 40 game. I am a new face to a table full of regulars (as I often am). I may have a loose calldown-monkey-ish image due to my two previous plays (one was a button/blind steal situation, and the other was a sick read on a live tell (yeah, right)).

Anyway I open TdTc in MP, get three-bet by a TAG next in, and an unknown four bets right after him. Three of us to the flop of:

Q95r

I check, 3-bettor bets, 4-better calls, and I ... am not sure what to do getting 15.5:1 so I call.

Turn 9, now two clubs on board.

I check, 3-bettor bets, 4-bettor folds, and I ... can't think of a hand that I beat so fold.

Any comments appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like this fold after the pot gets heads up. One overcard to your pair , not an A or K, against one opponent, you will win frequently enough that the pot odds justify a call in my opinion. I'd fold on the river only if another overcard hits.

A second suited card on the turn against a preflop and flop aggressor would not factor into my decision. In fact, I'd only factor that in if I had three or more opponents. This was a good turn card for you.

Yes, you will lose the vast majority of the time.

DeuceKicker · #9 10-08-2007, 02:00 PM

I don't like to fold heads-up, either, especially with only one overcard out, but what do you put the TAG on?

It seems to me you have to hit one of two parlays, and you don't know which.

emerson · #10 10-08-2007, 02:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like to fold heads-up, either, especially with only one overcard out, but what do you put the TAG on?

It seems to me you have to hit one of two parlays, and you don't know which.

[/ QUOTE ]

I put him on a queen or a big pocket pair, beating us. But I think he has AK or a smaller pocket pair frequently enough that our call has value.

Right now there are 8 big bets in the pot, 9 if you count the big bet we have to call on the river. It costs us 2 big bets to get to showdown... or probably only 1.75 if we figure he'll check the river about 25%. So this is a little better than 5 to 1. We need about 8 adjusted outs to call. The tens are only two outs. If we need six more outs then we need to figure that our hand wins unimproved about 12% of the time, or about one out of 8. (2% chance of winning is about equal to one out) So you really need to consider that we are beat more than 88% here for this to be a fold in my book. I just think he has AK or a smaller pocket more often than 12%.

So again, I think we lose the vast majority of the time. But not 90%.